Catherine Haddad's latest editorial

[QUOTE=Lucassb;7106206]
I suspect that there are very, very few people who would argue that having more and better training for amateurs in the US would be a good thing :wink: But I completely agree with you that someone (CH) who takes peoples’ money and then complains so bitterly about what a waste of her time it is to teach them is not only ridiculous and insulting, but frankly not all that bright. As you say, no wonder she has no sponsors.

I mean, really… if the message CHS wanted to send was simply, “we need more and better trainers in this country,” then obviously that sentiment would be far better expressed in a much more sympathetic way. For instance, she could have written, “My heart goes out to so many of the riders who come to my clinics missing the basics. It’s such a shame that their trainers have not been able to offer them more effective instruction so that they could do x, y and z. It seems to me that we need to figure out a way to help those professionals better acquire the skills they need to teach their good amateur clients to (put their horses on the bit, execute a decent 20 m circle, fill in desired skill here.) Here is what I suggest…”

Note that an author can discuss such a problem without ever denigrating all those CUSTOMERS who have paid for training help in the past! And it can be done in a humble and constructive way, without any need for self aggrandizement.

But no; clearly that wasn’t the message CHS sent when she wrote her article, packed as it was with protestations of how accomplished she is and what a waste of her precious time and talent it is to teach people below “an advanced level.”

Fortunately for all concerned, though, I think this is much less likely to be a problem in her future, LOL.

But - and I think this is really important - this woman’s rant should NOT be allowed to create fear or embarrassment among amateurs who want to further their skills in clinic environments (with other, better professionals, BNTs or not.) Comments like:

are just plain sad, and not likely to help our sport one little bit.

Dragon, let me tell you - the great, great majority of clinicians I have met over my last 3+ decades of riding are universally thrilled to have dedicated, passionate students show up for instruction at the clinics they offer. There is NO NEED to feel that you would be wasting anyone’s time if you show up prepared to be a good student and to give it your best. That is the entire POINT of clinics, after all!

As an example, when I did a clinic with WAZ - certainly a BNT - as a beginning dressage rider not that long ago, I was by far the least accomplished rider of the day. Hell, I didn’t reliably remember where the damn letters were at that point. WAZ started off by saying, “what a lovely horse. What do you do with him?”

I replied, truthfully, that he was a meter thirty horse… to much snickering from the gallery. WAZ paused a moment, smiled broadly, and said, “I jumped all my dressage horses, many of them to grand prix level. Every horse should jump; it is very good for them!” And I had a fabulous lesson.

So go, if you get a chance, and ride with a BNT if you want to. Show up with your horse gleaming, prepared to ride the best you are capable of, with an open mind and specific goals you hope to work on. And have a blast.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you should approach her with an offer to be her publicist…you are much more inspiring than what we got to read in her blog! :yes:

[QUOTE=RubyTuesday;7106259]
Maybe you should approach her with an offer to be her publicist…you are much more inspiring than what we got to read in her blog! :yes:[/QUOTE]

Amen!

Well, at least those who had never heard of Catherine, now have.

Honeylips, your post told us something about the lady, but can I ask what your credentials are, and if you know her? I for one have no personal knowledge of her, or even from the internet, until now.

Over all my years around horses, my whole life, like Lucassb, I have found riders who desperately and seriously want to ride better and do the best for their horses, me included.

Of course, in any sport there are the wannabies, (like the snow bunnies at Whistler where the sports outfitters make all the money!), and comments from LE and Velvet signify that they must meet only the lowest common denominator of dressage riders.

I’m just so glad I have a trainer who I just never disagree with - he has endless patience and is thrilled with the smallest improvements.

And BTW what exactly IS a rabbid garden snail? And how does having rabies make it slower than a regular snail? Actually come to think of it, snails can cruise right along, all things considered :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;7106276]
Well, at least those who had never heard of Catherine, now have.

Honeylips, your post told us something about the lady, but can I ask what your credentials are, and if you know her? I for one have no personal knowledge of her, or even from the internet, until now.[/QUOTE]

Credentials - USEF Silver Medalist. Active rider and competitor. Winner of USDF Horse of the Year with myself as rider. Sponsor and provider of horses for USEF High Performance Riders (I play in the same sandbox as CHS). The first American owner to ever win the Bundeschampionat. Winning owner of USEF FEI Young Horse Champion, owner of top 5 placed FEI Young Horse Champions. USEF Committee Member. Owner of horse nominated to represent the USA in the World Championships for Young Horses in Verden. Owner of several horses to win USDF Horse of the Year.

But it doesn’t matter who I am or what I know. Even if I wasn’t involved in the sport at an intense level - the principles are the same. Pay it forward, be grateful for what you have, don’t complain in public and don’t cr**p on the people who pay your bills.

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;7105799]
As one of those snail riders I agree with her.

Her clinic cost is $300 for a lesson. Why on earth would anyone who doesn’t know how to put their horse on the bit, or pick up the canter, or sit the trot waste their money on that? More to say you got to ride with someone famous and not for the training.

Even if you have to haul a distance for a weekend of training with a lower level trainer you’d still get more lessons and more worth then a lesson or two with someone famous.[/QUOTE]

Maybe because they think that someone very knowledgeable could help them out of a hole that they are in? 300 does sound very pricey though.

The most expensive 2 lessons I’ve ever taken were with P. Kjellerup at 70 bucks apiece in '95 or '96. Best lesson money I ever spent. Before those lessons I was afraid I might be stuck in walk trot classes. I knew how to ask for a canter depart, btw, but my mare had some sort of mental block about picking up the right lead. Riders far more experienced than I couldn’t consistently get a right lead from her either.

Good thing I was able to get a lesson from someone as experienced and talented as he is, who was also willing to teach.

[QUOTE=honeylips;7106298]
Credentials - USEF Silver Medalist. Active rider and competitor. Winner of USDF Horse of the Year with myself as rider. Sponsor and provider of horses for USEF High Performance Riders (I play in the same sandbox as CHS). The first American owner to ever win the Bundeschampionat. Winning owner of USEF FEI Young Horse Champion, owner of top 5 placed FEI Young Horse Champions. USEF Committee Member. Owner of horse nominated to represent the USA in the World Championships for Young Horses in Verden. Owner of several horses to win USDF Horse of the Year.

But it doesn’t matter who I am or what I know. Even if I wasn’t involved in the sport at an intense level - the principles are the same. Pay it forward, be grateful for what you have, don’t complain in public and don’t cr**p on the people who pay your bills.[/QUOTE]

Satisfied now, Foxtrot’s? Your violin is playing quite a bit out of tune.

[QUOTE=NOMIOMI1;7102567]
Kyzteke,

Easy to answer. THIS is not the horse world, this is cotherland, big difference.

When I go to shows or the barn I don’t see people giving a fig about these supposed issues in the grander scheme of things. Most hard knocks don’t have any trouble nodding and moving.

To be offended in the regular horse world is much harder… Because it means you have to stop looking between the horses ears long enough to ;)[/QUOTE]

You’re right…I keep forgetting that…:wink:

What is the most important thing we learn on this journey?

No matter where we are on the journey-from rank beginner to top international competitor

It is is humility.

The more we know, the more we understand that we don’t know.

CH does not have that no matter what her fans with multiple alters may say.

[QUOTE=Isabeau Z Solace;7106043]
Well… in my area, there is everyone and God. You can clinic with Buck Brannaman, or take a lesson every month April-October with one of ‘his’ trainers. OR… you can ride with an Olympian, just pick one. You can’t spit without hitting one around here.

BUT… You will not find most folks taking a clinic with Mary Wanless, Charles DK, one of Buck’s people, etc. You will NOT find them seeking out instructors who challenge them. You will find them seeking out trainers with spiffy competition records, fancy horses, and MONDO, GINORMOUS, O LORDY OH MY, HOW DID IT GET SO LARGE EGOs. Flash, a foreign accent, and a perpetually uplifted nose are also successful marketing features…

We do NOT lack good trainers. We lack people who will seek them out. Henceforth these ‘good trainers’ are not well supported, do not flourish greatly, and do not produce many good students.

You have to look in the direction OPPOSITE the show grounds to find most of them. You have to be willing to be made uncomfortable. And then, to critically evaluate what you are being taught, and walk away from it if it sucks.[/QUOTE]

Given your publicly available show record (centerlinescores is the bomb), I’m not surprised that you avoid trainers that show regularly.

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;7105799]
Her clinic cost is $300 for a lesson. Why on earth would anyone who doesn’t know how to put their horse on the bit, or pick up the canter, or sit the trot waste their money on that? More to say you got to ride with someone famous and not for the training.[/QUOTE]

$300 a ride? Wow, she is quite full of herself, isn’t she? :lol:

The upcoming Debbie McDonald clinic at our barn is $325/ride, which is WAY more bang for the buck! :winkgrin:

I just couldn’t stay away and wanted to see how this ended up. For the love of Pete, if anyone here actually is a friend of CHS, do her a favor and take away her computer. She is combusting online, and it’s sad to watch. I don’t see how anyone, if shown her comments (on the blog comments), would want to ride with her after this display.

Weird-her latest comment seems to have disappeared.

Ok, now I am laughing!!! :slight_smile: You guys are too much!

Because a bunch of people who have never met Catherine, never spoken to her, never ridden with her, never seen her teach or seen her ride are saying that she’s having a meltdown about a serious issue in our country and sport - I should cancel my plans to train with her???

Baaaahhhaaaaahaah! You have got to be kidding!

On a serious note - I’ve paid close to $300 to ride with her in a clinic - that one was quite a distance for her to travel and the fee was charged by the host (who is entitled to have a fee in there somewhere, I think). It. Was. Worth. Every. Single. Penny. IMO. That day changed my riding forever. (thank goodness)

So don’t forget to factor in travel fees and host costs when you are choking over that number. Clinic fees can be misleading. :yes:

Getting back to the meat of the blog - who’s on your list of trainers to train the next generation of trainers?
If you don’t care for CHS, who do YOU recommend and why?
Where would you organize said teaching sessions?
How much is a fair price to learn “a training system” from the beginning through Grand Prix? Either per lesson or a round number…whichever you find easier to calculate.
How would you go about soliciting participants? And auditors?
How long would each session last?
Are the sessions monthly, biannual, yearly?

Rather than wallowing in what/who/how you would have said differently - let’s all get proactive and talk about solutions to the problem at hand! :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=dressurpferd01;7106359]
Given your publicly available show record (centerlinescores is the bomb), I’m not surprised that you avoid trainers that show regularly.[/QUOTE]

Oh you are so sweet!! Thanks.

I’m only one of the bunch, but that’s not what I said. I simply said that I wondered why anyone would want to after her blog comments. You’re exactly right: I’ve never met, spoken to, nor have I ever trained with her. But based solely on her comments alone, I don’t want to. There are a lot of other trainers out there with better records and, frankly, better marketing skills. Call me crazy, but I try to stay away from the polarizing crap. And I don’t think this is a serious issue in our country-there are hundreds more important serious issues.

It’s ok-I’m small potatoes and I won’t make a dent. But I’m apparently not the only one who feels this way.

As for your other, very spot on questions, I don’t know the answers. I haven’t been around long enough to know. But I did fly across the country to hear Debbie McDonald after reading her book, and I audited with Hilda G on the advice of others, and I’ve ridden in two other clinics with big trainers. I didn’t come away with a very poor taste in my mouth as I do here.

That’s all-I just don’t know if she can see the forest for the trees and realize how alienating her words are. If she doesn’t care, great. But if she does, then she needs a good friend to steer her in a different direction. Damage control, you know? You can get the same point across without being so inflammatory (my perception).

It’s a shame.

[QUOTE=Eclectic Horseman;7102280]
I find it extremely interesting that she seems to believe that dressage trainers in the USA control their clients. While some of that “control” may happen in h/j land (where so many students are young riders), it is not commonly found in the dressage world.

Am I missing something? Does CHS only allow riders into her clinics if they are referred by, sponsored by, or accredited by their trainer? I am guessing not. So then, how on earth are trainers supposed to have any control over what their clients do with their own horses and their own money?

This is the USA, Catherine. People are free to do what they like with their own horses and their own money. You also have the right to set your own rules for your clinics. I agree completely with katarine. She needs to set some rules and stop her bellyaching.[/QUOTE]

Right. Some real time look at the situation in the world at large seems to be lost on this one. If teaching basics is beneath her, it may simply be that she does not have the abilities to teach at that level. Who really cares whether the person can merely sit a trot, if she does not want to teach those levels, just say so in the marketing for the clinic. Otherwise, Diva is as Diva does. I guess we just don’t have enough German, Swiss, Danish or Swedish oligarchic money for her, and not enough elevated and enlightened riders to consort with and teach for the glory of it all, you know? Boo hoo.

[QUOTE=2tempe;7106220]
Many years ago as I was trying to climb a corporate ladder - so I could afford all this horse stuff - I took management training programs. One of the things I was taught was that when you are dealing with ‘lower level’ people ie those who are learning the ropes, new to industry or anyone who works for you, is that the manager should always try to say negative things in a positive fashion. Another was not to complain if I wasn’t willing to offer a solution. Clearly CH has missed both of these little life lessons. “I’m too busy” and “I’ll just stay home” don’t cut it.
She may not be wrong in whatever point she was trying to make, but its pretty clear she wasn’t successful…[/QUOTE]

LMAO so you are using the chronicle forums as a barometer of her success on getting her message across. Seriously??

[QUOTE=Spiritwalker;7106444]
LMAO so you are using the chronicle forums as a barometer of her success on getting her message across. Seriously??[/QUOTE]

But Spiritwalker, isn’t that the exact platform that CHS chose?

[QUOTE=DownYonder;7106373]
$300 a ride? Wow, she is quite full of herself, isn’t she? :lol:

The upcoming Debbie McDonald clinic at our barn is $325/ride, which is WAY more bang for the buck! :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

Everyone has their opinions on who is worth what money. Personally I’d disagree but that is what makes the world go around.

[QUOTE=Tasker;7106427]
Ok, now I am laughing!!! :slight_smile: You guys are too much!

Because a bunch of people who have never met Catherine, never spoken to her, never ridden with her, never seen her teach or seen her ride are saying that she’s having a meltdown about a serious issue in our country and sport - I should cancel my plans to train with her???

Baaaahhhaaaaahaah! You have got to be kidding!

On a serious note - I’ve paid close to $300 to ride with her in a clinic - that one was quite a distance for her to travel and the fee was charged by the host (who is entitled to have a fee in there somewhere, I think). It. Was. Worth. Every. Single. Penny. IMO. That day changed my riding forever. (thank goodness)

So don’t forget to factor in travel fees and host costs when you are choking over that number. Clinic fees can be misleading. :yes:

Getting back to the meat of the blog - who’s on your list of trainers to train the next generation of trainers?
If you don’t care for CHS, who do YOU recommend and why?
Where would you organize said teaching sessions?
How much is a fair price to learn “a training system” from the beginning through Grand Prix? Either per lesson or a round number…whichever you find easier to calculate.
How would you go about soliciting participants? And auditors?
How long would each session last?
Are the sessions monthly, biannual, yearly?

Rather than wallowing in what/who/how you would have said differently - let’s all get proactive and talk about solutions to the problem at hand! :)[/QUOTE]

A couple years ago we were able to get Felicitas Von Neuman-Cousel (sp?) and she was fabulous. Her lessons were hard work, clear, fully engaged. She did not let any rider lolly-lolly around the arena, but she was fair based on each riders level (first-PSG). Last month we had her cousin Suzanne Von Dietze do a symposium. She was fabulous as well. She had an entire tool box of exercises to help riders learn body awareness, improve connection with the horse and combine both. I recommend her DVD to see what she is all about. My instructor has been using her exercises now in our lessons and WOW is all I can say…much improved position in the saddle. Now my dream would be to partake in a 4 day clinic with BOTH of them, taking a lesson in the morning from one and in the afternoon the other.

FWIW, I don’t think anyone can balk at their credentials and rider fees were below the $300 mark:)