Cattle trailer full of horses overturned on I40 west of Nashville

They are saving it for the 2nd annual summit of the horse to be held in Oklahoma in April.

[QUOTE=luvmytbs;6091228]
What I don’t understand is why we are not heaing anything from the pro-slaughter entities (Sue Wallis, Tom Lenz, UHC etc) on this matter.

They (along with their minions) constantly boast about how concerned they are about humane treatment at the plant, in transit and the safety issues during transport and that they will assure everything will be better for the horses.

Here they have a PR opportunity to show their concern for the horses and humans involved and to explain to the public how they will prevent such incidents from happening on their watch.

Yet, not a peep.
It’s like they have fallen off the face of the earth.

Obviously they don’t walk the talk. :lol:[/QUOTE]

OK, so before the thread closes, here are my own two cents. Might possibly be worth more than the average post, since I actually HAVE a semi and double decker catle trailer.

There are two compartments in which I would consider hauling my own horses. These are in the front and the back, where there is headroom for the horses (these compartments are not double decker). Now, my horses range from 14.1 to 17.1 hands. If all of my horses were 14.1 and less, I would consider putting them in the double deck compartments. I can stand up completely without ducking, just barely. I am 5’5 1/2". I would either put mats down, or pretty deep shavings for my own horses if they had shoes on. I would not haul a shod horse in a bare diamond-floor aluminum trailer except under duress (evacuation for flood or fire, time constraint to get horse to vet, etc). If a compartment were filled snug with horses, it would be easier for the horses to keep balance and not slip on a slippery trailer floor, so if I DID have to haul said shod horses under duress, I would take enough horses to fill the compartment if I could. I generally haul my horses in an aluminum stock trailer (the ones that look similar to the big double-deckers, with ‘cheese grater’ sides and diamond-tread aluminum floors) with mats put down.

We can fit about 38 cows, weighing around 1300 pounds, in the trailer at one time. Comfortably. Pregnant cows…that are two or three months from calving. The idea is to FILL the compartments, but not pack them super tight. It is absolutely easier for the cattle to travel and balance when they aren’t moving all over. They also tend not to fight or display aggressive behavior when it becomes obvious to the bovine aggressor that the underling won’t get out of the way. The trouble tends to occur when the underling actually CAN move out of the way, but not ‘enough’ out of the way. We also pretty often haul bulls in this and our stock trailer. If you put bulls into the trailer who don’t live together, you’d better pack them snug or they will rattle and bang and hurt either each other or the trailer or both. And if you put fighting bulls on the TOP deck of the trailer, you’d better da##-ed well believe that you will be at risk for turning your trailer on its side. You have to fill a compartment, but not pack it so tight that nobody can move.

We have hauled cattle long distance (two or more days) in the double deck semi trailer and a regular gooseneck, without unloading for the night. The cattle get pushed up snug into one compartment when we are on the road. We open up the trailer compartments, bed it so they can lie down comfortably, and put a tub of water in for overnight, that pretty much gives them the equivalent of a stall for the night. We’ll find a way to let cattle out of the trailer for a night if we have to go more than three days’ travel.

Most reasonably socialized horses can be snug-packed into a trailer without seriously injuring each other.

I would expect trouble with any poorly socialized horses, like stallions living always in a stall or by themselves, or any horse that could not reasonably be turned out in a group.

I would expect trouble if horses who were from differing herds/origins were put loose in a trailer compartment that was not ‘filled completely’.

I would expect trouble trying to pack tall horses into a double-decker compartment.

And I would expect trouble if a driver was tired or otherwise impaired.

I’m sorry to hear of ANY livestock-containing trucks/trailers overturning, and I’m sure a number of these slaughter-bound horses are not well handled, but I won’t be freaked out to hear that someone has horses in a double-deck cattle trailer.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Everything that has been discussed here regarding this trailer is pure speculation.
We do not know the make, type, size etc of this specific trailer.

I am assuming that the USDA had the details they needed to make the statement they did.

Well, no, it’s not speculation that it was not a double decker.

:cool: BECAUSE I DO.

ROFL - glad you know what everyone thinks.

[QUOTE=7HL;6096179]
:cool: BECAUSE I DO.[/QUOTE]

I knew you would post that…

[QUOTE=betonbill;6095625]
Perhaps this helps explain the Mexican athletes that were found to have steroids in their system after eating horsemeat regularly as part of their training regimen.[/QUOTE]

Just go to your local tractor supply or feed store. Steroids for beef cattle are found off the shelf. The steroids pellets are injected with a little pellet gun. eat cows, you will eat steroids and you will be dependent on whoever administers the steoids to give the correct dose or frequency of dose. No permit required.

[QUOTE=Cielo Azure;6096463]
Just go to your local tractor supply or feed store. Steroids for beef cattle are found off the shelf. The steroids pellets are injected with a little pellet gun. eat cows, you will eat steroids and you will be dependent on whoever administers the steoids to give the correct dose or frequency of dose. No permit required.[/QUOTE]

That’s not true. When cattle are implanted, the implants go in the ear. The implants and dosage are timed so that they are done by the time the animals go to slaughter. So unless you make a habit of eating cows’ ears, you don’t have a problem. And probably wouldn’t have a problem even if you ate the cow’s ears.

[QUOTE=wireweiners;6099908]
That’s not true. When cattle are implanted, the implants go in the ear. The implants and dosage are timed so that they are done by the time the animals go to slaughter. So unless you make a habit of eating cows’ ears, you don’t have a problem. And probably wouldn’t have a problem even if you ate the cow’s ears.[/QUOTE]

and I have a bridge in brooklyn. Although cattle implants have recommended dosing, the FDA allows beef cattle just injected into slaughter and most are injected (just like horses) when they enter the feedlot.

UPDATED: American Public Health Association Supports Ban On Hormonal Milk And Meat

"Following a single ear implant in steers of Synovex-S, a combination of estrogen and progesterone, residues of these hormones in meat were found to be up to 20-fold higher than normal. "

http://www.world-wire.com/news/0911130001.html

I know APHS is just another ARA to you!
"Overview: The American Public Health Association is the oldest and most diverse organization of public health professionals in the world and has been working to improve public health since 1872. The Association aims to protect all Americans, their families and their communities from preventable, serious health threats and strives to assure community-based health promotion and disease prevention activities and preventive health services are universally accessible in the United States. APHA represents a broad array of health professionals and others who care about their own health and the health of their communities.

APHA builds a collective voice for public health, working to ensure access to health care, protect funding for core public health services and eliminate health disparities, among a myriad of other issues. Through its two flagship publications, the peer-reviewed American Journal of Public Health and the award-winning newspaper The Nation’s Health, along with its e-newsletter Inside Public Health, the Association communicates the latest public health science and practice to members, opinion leaders and the public.

[QUOTE=Cielo Azure;6100006]
and I have a bridge in brooklyn. Although cattle implants have recommended dosing, the FDA allows beef cattle just injected into slaughter and most are injected (just like horses) when they enter the feedlot.

UPDATED: American Public Health Association Supports Ban On Hormonal Milk And Meat

"Following a single ear implant in steers of Synovex-S, a combination of estrogen and progesterone, residues of these hormones in meat were found to be up to 20-fold higher than normal. "

http://www.world-wire.com/news/0911130001.html

I know APHS is just another ARA to you!
"Overview: The American Public Health Association is the oldest and most diverse organization of public health professionals in the world and has been working to improve public health since 1872. The Association aims to protect all Americans, their families and their communities from preventable, serious health threats and strives to assure community-based health promotion and disease prevention activities and preventive health services are universally accessible in the United States. APHA represents a broad array of health professionals and others who care about their own health and the health of their communities.

APHA builds a collective voice for public health, working to ensure access to health care, protect funding for core public health services and eliminate health disparities, among a myriad of other issues. Through its two flagship publications, the peer-reviewed American Journal of Public Health and the award-winning newspaper The Nation’s Health, along with its e-newsletter Inside Public Health, the Association communicates the latest public health science and practice to members, opinion leaders and the public.[/QUOTE]

Believing what that animal rights group propaganda presents is like expecting the HSUS to tell us how to manage our horses.:rolleyes:

Here, learn a bit more about hormones in all our food, including in meats from implanted animals:

http://meatblogger.org/2009/12/05/hormones-in-my-organic-food-yep/

—Hormones in my organic food? Yep.
Posted on 5. December. 2009 by Chris Raines
By Christopher R. Raines

I recently ate at a local restaurant and, of course, noted the “hormone-free grass-fed beef” on the menu. I asked the server if those were the teeniest, tiniest cows they’d ever seen — no response. As many opportunistic farmers seek ways to add value (excellent thinking!) to the food they produce, they naturally turn to specialized food production claims (very doable). One of those circulating, albeit inaccurately, is “hormone-free.” To many, this may seem like I’m making a mountain out of a molehill, yet these two statements have inherently different meanings:

“Hormone-free” <- impossible
“Produced/Raised without added hormones” <- possible
This is particularly interesting because all multicellular organisms (beans, cows, lentils, birds, bees, kelp, whatever) possess naturally-occurring hormones and thus, no meat can ever be “hormone-free.” A reason additional hormones are administered to cattle is because they compliment the effects of already existent hormones thereby resulting in boosted growth or production. In the simplest sense – As cows do their thing, converting otherwise inedible roughage and other feeds into meat or milk, the administered hormone (usually in the form of a small implant in the ear, or an injection — ideally, in the tail head or neck), they “use” it like they use the pre-existing, naturally-occuring hormone. The result is meat that differs minimally in its hormone content compared with meat from its organically-raised counterpart.

Oh, but there is research showing “significantly” more estrogen in beef from implanted cattle compared to non-implanted? Perhaps. But how do you define significant? In the scientific realm, the term “significant” is used, for example, to compare response levels of treatment X vs. Y. If X is consistently greater than Y, then it may be deemed significant — in the statistical sense. See, there’s a little value called the P-value, which is a probability. The arbitrary “magic” P-value for a “significant” difference is 0.05, and another way of interpreting that is: There is a 95% chance that the values of X and Y (in the conditions presented) will be different. Then, it is indeed possible that, say 1.6 is significantly “different” from 1.8. Colloquially, however, “significant” as related to a quantity is interpreted as “a lot.” Two very different meanings!

Comparisons regarding the “level” of hormones in common foods, estrogenic activity:

Estrogen produced, in nanograms per day:

And contrary to popular belief in regard to the administration of additional hormones (as reflected by some advertising methods), this cannot be done to pigs and poultry in the United States. So, when you find chicken or pork with the label “raised without added hormones,” this means scientifically squat compared with its conventional, commodity counterpart. If I purchased “hormone-free” beef, analyzed it, and (surprise!) found hormones, is that grounds for lawsuit?

No meat or milk can be “hormone-free” – it’s impossible. The only way to have any hormone-free animal-based protein (or any protein, really) is (potentially) to grow it in a Petri dish via the creative complexing of various chemicals. Those selling “hormone-free” meat are not selling laboratory-grown proteinaceous goo, just misinformation. Bon appetit."—

whom to believe… The American Public Health Association …or… Bluey?

If you all want to think that the APHA is an ARA go right ahead.

If you want to think that the EU ban on our meat is because the EU is an ARA, have at it!

[QUOTE=Cielo Azure;6100137]
whom to believe… The American Public Health Association …or… Bluey?

If you all want to think that the APHA is an ARA go right ahead.

If you want to think that the EU ban on our meat is because the EU is an ARA, have at it![/QUOTE]

Sorry, you are wrong there.
You don’t have to believe me, just look for other information than from those sources as you quote there.

The USA went to international court in La Hage and, after a ten year battle, won the admission by the European Common Market that the science was in our side, hormones are not a reason to ban our meat.
It was a trade barrier to keep a considerably better product out of their stores, so they could sell their heavily subsidized one.

If you want to be truly informed, you need to read more than just those websites with those kinds of propaganda.:no:

Here that information is, a bit easier to understand:

http://www.meatmythcrushers.com/myths/myth-hormone-use-in-beef-production.html

—Fact:
Hormones like estrogen are used in modern beef production to increase the amount of beef that can be harvested from cattle. However, these hormones are the same as, or synthetic versions of those naturally produced by cattle.
The estrogen that is used in beef production, for example, is used at levels that are a fraction of what is found in soybean oil, soybeans, eggs and what is produced by the human body.

Dig deeper…
Consider that a pound of soybean oil contains 900,000 nanograms of estrogen per pound.
Compare that to 1.9 nanograms per pound found in beef produced using hormone implants and 1.7 nanograms per pound in non-implanted beef 1.

While some people cite Europe’s ban on hormone-treated beef from the U.S. as evidence that hormones are a concern, Europe’s own scientists have affirmed that hormone use in cattle production is safe.
Unfortunately, European political bodies have rejected the science and refused to lift the ban.
Because high quality U.S. beef is produced more efficiently and economically, it is a prime competitor to European-produced beef."—

Maybe she should go back to school and get her PhD so she’ll know how to sift through the research all on her own. It’ll sure beat having to depend on other people such as yourself to dumb things down for her.

[QUOTE=shezabrazenmare;6100193]
Maybe she should go back to school and get her PhD so she’ll know how to sift through the research all on her own. It’ll sure beat having to depend on other people such as yourself to dumb things down for her.[/QUOTE]

I would say, anyone that post what she did is misinformed, no matter how much education it may have otherwise.:yes:

The data, facts and real information is out there, just as the misinformation is.

Now, everyone of course may choose to believe what they want.:slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Bluey;6100217]
I would say, anyone that post what she did is misinformed, no matter how much education it may have otherwise.:yes:

The data, facts and real information is out there, just as the misinformation is.

Now, everyone of course may choose to believe what they want.:)[/QUOTE]

It still begs the question as to why you’re so confident that what you’re choosing to read and what to discard is somehow the definitive. You’re not as objective as you like to think you are. You belong to a camp just as much as everyone else might in this discussion. Or maybe you’ve done a good old fashioned literature review on the subject and that’s how you know you’re looking at everything objectively, I don’t know. If you have, I’m more than happy to read it.

Sorry, but it really irritates me the way a few people speak so condescendingly about the intelligence of those who take the other position. And I am NOT referring to Animal Rights, even though that’s your fallback position, to overgeneralize anyone who disagrees with you as being a RARA. It’s a basic error in logic. Just because you don’t feel any emotion toward the animals in this discussion doesn’t automatically make yours the “logical” and rational position.

[QUOTE=shezabrazenmare;6100256]
It still begs the question as to why you’re so confident that what you’re choosing to read and what to discard is somehow the definitive. You’re not as objective as you like to think you are. You belong to a camp just as much as everyone else might in this discussion. Or maybe you’ve done a good old fashioned literature review on the subject and that’s how you know you’re looking at everything objectively, I don’t know. If you have, I’m more than happy to read it.

Sorry, but it really irritates me the way a few people speak so condescendingly about the intelligence of those who take the other position. And I am NOT referring to Animal Rights, even though that’s your fallback position, to overgeneralize anyone who disagrees with you as being a RARA. It’s a basic error in logic. Just because you don’t feel any emotion toward the animals in this discussion doesn’t automatically make yours the “logical” and rational position.[/QUOTE]

When someone trots up the “horrible hormones in beef” myth, that is like someone that doesn’t know about horses asking a horseman “but don’t you wear spurs when you ride?
Don’t they hurt a horse when you spur them?”

Yes, some times we wear spurs and they are an aid, a refinement of the leg.
Sure, someone can misuse them and hurt a horse, any tool we choose to use can be misused.

The hormones used in beef production have decades of proper science behind their use and are heavily regulated.
If some were to be found as residues, there is jail time for those that misused them and their business would be shut down.
As the International Tribunal decided for the USA and the science behind them, it is clear they are a safe way to get more from our resources and a better, healthier product from their proper use, as they basically help put more meat, less fat from the same food the animals consume.
A gain all the way around from their use.

No one needs to believe me, go look it up in studies by agriculture university releases, not in certain agenda driven anti-agriculture/animal use groups putting pseudo science out there.:no:

We have been thru this time and again, all I will say is, go find out more from ALL sources and then decide what you want to believe.:slight_smile:

How did a thread about an overturned cattle trailer full of horses turn into some pi$$ing contest about the use of hormones in beef, pray tell?

The link to the story from a prior driver pretty much confirmed what I think. The owner of this farm is a sick slick bastard who likes to flout the law for his own profit. I hope there is enough uncovered on this creep that he serves jail time.

Just the fact that his farm is named for Angels (probably so he could “fly under the radar” shipping horses off to Mexico without proper documentation, proper breaks for drivers and etc.-- Yes his farm was named for angels --angels like the Angel of Death Abuse and Cruelty. I hope authorities dig deeper on this one-- I bet they will probably uncover enough horse carcases to make what happened at the TB farm in LA look like Disneyland.

I just find it amusing that the same people who get the vapors over estrogenic compounds in meat and soy products think nothing of drinking tap water. :confused: