There is a big difference between local jumpers who I guess you might often see as…not really successful in other disciplines, But not ch/aa jumpers. Even in the 80s I knew people importing horses to fill that slot…including for their kids.
As a horrifyingly extreme example my boss bought a 5yr old for 40k in September and sold three days later for export from Holland for 250k. The rider is 16.
One change over the years is that the highs now go to a legit 1.15m in the classics at bigger shows, and those extra few inches from the days of a single 3’6 division really limit a lot of horses to the lows. That accounts for the massive price increase between the two divisions. It takes a somewhat special horse to take a joke at that height as someone is moving up,both in terms of their brain and their scope. That said, even in the late 90s about 20k seemed to be the price point for a good, safe CH/AA jumper, though not necessarily the winner.
Thanks for the explanation.
[QUOTE=omare;8417600]
Sorry I dont mean it harshly–it seemed years ago it was the horses that were just a little too hot or forward to be hunters and maybe did not have the perfect form -or big and slow enough step )often thoroughbreds) so were "rejects’ from the hunter ring (where I mistakenly thought the really big money was…)
I am just feeling very stupid as I let a pony clubber event my perfect AA jumper horse as I thought there was little value for a good horse in that ring…my mistake.
(Edited to add: And I thought they were the horses that did not have the scope to do the AO/Jr jumpers or bigger professional classes)[/QUOTE]
A good high AA (1.10 - 1.15) horse is worth it’s weight in gold. It is a huge division, filled with children learning the ropes or AAs who probably won’t move up to the AOs due to lack of time or money. The horses need to be brave, careful and rideable, plus take a joke and keep going. The horse also needs a record to sell at those prices. Not just at local shows, but at A shows with a 1.15m classic.
Again please understand it is not that I dont think they are worth it–I am actually happy they are --I just did not realize how popular and competitve that section had gotten raisng demand. for that “product.” I am out of the loop but glad to be updated.
I am going to send you a PM
I am an eventer now but spent 25 plus years doing strictly jumpers ( first in Switzerland and now in Virginia). I have 2 very reasonably priced.
[QUOTE=omare;8417483]
Have they always been that expensive or …when did that happen?? I thought the AA jumper (low and high) were kind of the rejects as long as they would go, save their riders when needed in whatever form, and not knock down rails (and steered). ([/QUOTE]
When 2’6" seeing eye dog type hunters are frequently going over $100,000 a ch/AA jumper is a real steal for $40,000.
That said, the horses in the inks to Big Eq seemed nice for the prices.
I think I am still stuck in the big recession mind set.
I agree that it might not be a bad idea to contact some eventing trainers that might have suitable horses. It is not uncommon for eventers to be sold into the hunter/jumper ring in my area.
My one client, Courtney Cooper of C Square Farm (Nottingham, PA), often sells horses of a variety of disciplines, so she may be worth a phone call for you. Her website is www.csquarefarm.com. And I’ll PM you info on a specific horse that might interest you!
If you are looking for a real deal a circuit high children’s adult horse, you need something pretty scopey and brave. Often the division classes will be in a smaller ring and the jumps will be 1.10 meters, but come Sunday you need to be able to jump around the gp ring at a solid 1.15. I have a killer one that is teaching me the ropes, but she’s older and is a solid 1.25 horse, so if I make a mistake, no biggie. Mine doesn’t have a great change and certainly isn’t broke like an equitation horse, but come Sundays I wouldn’t trade her for any horse in the field. It’s the ability to get you around safely clear that you are paying for, bonus if they are quick and catty in the jump-off. Look for something older as a move up horse. You won’t regret it, and will be much more likely to find something south of $50k.
So I have a question - what would pricing look like for horses that are trained to the level (high AAs) but have only local show experience (or maybe one or two small As)?
I ask because I have developed many horses to this level but accessing the big shows is difficult for me due to time and money- it seems there is a market for these horses that can do it but haven’t shown on the big circuits as a means for those with smaller budgets to acquire a ride?
Under 20k. A solid show record is required for the bigger numbers.
How can you train over rated show jumps set at division heights and spreads on licensed course designer built courses with 12-15 efforts designed to be jumped at a certain pace within the time allowed at home?
Horse has to prove itself in actual shows to earn the higher price tags. Schooling really doesn’t help and, face it, who times their home schooling. Being able to clear the fence height is only part of what’s needed.
1 Like
[QUOTE=findeight;8421228]
How can you train over rated show jumps set at division heights and spreads on licensed course designer built courses with 12-15 efforts designed to be jumped at a certain pace within the time allowed at home?
Horse has to prove itself in actual shows to earn the higher price tags. Schooling really doesn’t help and, face it, who times their home schooling. Being able to clear the fence height is only part of what’s needed.[/QUOTE]
I event. It’s not as if the courses are built by amateurs Events are more accessible to me and less time consuming, and much less expensive than the big rated A shows.
I have easily crossed several horses over into the jumper arena successfully several times - I just don’t have the time/money to campaign on this circuit.
I go to clinics, where all the questions are schooled at height (and higher).
But the horses don’t typically command huge prices until you are talking about the very top levels of the sport.
[QUOTE=butiwantedapony;8421235]
I event. It’s not as if the courses are built by amateurs Events are more accessible to me and less time consuming, and much less expensive than the big rated A shows.
I have easily crossed several horses over into the jumper arena successfully several times - I just don’t have the time/money to campaign on this circuit.
I go to clinics, where all the questions are schooled at height (and higher).
But the horses don’t typically command huge prices until you are talking about the very top levels of the sport.[/QUOTE]
Eventing show jumping courses aren’t nearly as technical as jumper courses, and there is no jump off so you can’t tell how careful a horse is when the speed gets faster and turns get tighter. You also don’t know how it will place against a field of jumpers.
Not saying your horse can’t do it, just saying that you won’t get the big price tag without the record. That’s just the way it is.
[QUOTE=wanderlust;8421377]
Eventing show jumping courses aren’t nearly as technical as jumper courses, and there is no jump off so you can’t tell how careful a horse is when the speed gets faster and turns get tighter. You also don’t know how it will place against a field of jumpers.
Not saying your horse can’t do it, just saying that you won’t get the big price tag without the record. That’s just the way it is.[/QUOTE]
That’s my point - producing the horses at a lower price point. Many people want to go to have fun and aren’t looking for (and can’t afford) the horse that will win every time out.
Obviously the price point is lower for a capable horse that hasn’t been campaigned specifically as a jumper, than one who has. I’m simply asking what kind of money would one expect to pay for this?
Also if you haven’t been to an event lately, you might want to check it out. The SJ is extremely technical at the bigger events - more difficult than I have seen at the A jumper shows around me.
Just because a horse hasn’t been in the show arena 100 times doesn’t mean it isn’t capable - a well trained horse with the athletic ability to jump the height should have no issue getting around the course.
Things must have changed drastically in the last few years. We took our home schooled and coached OTTB to the Vermont Summer Festival as an AA for his first show ever and my first in 20+ years and got decent ribbons. The next year my daughter took him and got ribbons in Childrens. That was the second show for both.
He was sound, sane, a shade over 16h and attractive and about 8YO.I didn’t find anyone rushing up with $50-80k to buy him, but, then again, no trainers were involved. I did, however, overhear a conversation at the rail between trainers expressing surprise that the horse in the ring had sold for $30k. That horse was pretty small, not a great mover or jumper, had bar shoes on all four feet and had a refusal and a ton of time faults. Maybe I’m in the wrong business.
I have a seeing-eye-type packer, 12 yr old, 17.2 hh, Dutch-x, very made Ch/AA jumper, with 3’3" perf hunter mileage, and who is now foxhunting successfully, for sale at a BARGAIN price around $35k. The price is slightly negotiable, but sorry OP, it is certainly not $20k.
Now, I am absolutely not saying that you can’t find one in that price range, especially if an owner really needs to sell, but I think most in that range may have some quirks or need some good maintenance.
[QUOTE=Madeline;8421667]
Things must have changed drastically in the last few years. We took our home schooled and coached OTTB to the Vermont Summer Festival as an AA for his first show ever and my first in 20+ years and got decent ribbons. The next year my daughter took him and got ribbons in Childrens. That was the second show for both.
He was sound, sane, a shade over 16h and attractive and about 8YO.I didn’t find anyone rushing up with $50-80k to buy him, but, then again, no trainers were involved. I did, however, overhear a conversation at the rail between trainers expressing surprise that the horse in the ring had sold for $30k. That horse was pretty small, not a great mover or jumper, had bar shoes on all four feet and had a refusal and a ton of time faults. Maybe I’m in the wrong business.[/QUOTE]
OTTBs will generally command a lower price than a warmblood, especially a fine boned one. I own one myself and think they can be fabulous beasts, but the identical horse but “fancy” will cost more, even though it technically doesn’t matter in the jumper ring. I think once they hit maybe the 1.20m+ classes and still perform the price differential begins to drop. It also depends if they are an easy point-and-shoot ride with a mellow mind or if they are hot.
Also, I think most people agree the $50k-80k price tag is for the consistent winner who’s a fairly easy ride, not one who gets a ribbon usually.
Were they surprised it was “only” $30k or surprised it went for that much?
