Ch/AA Jumper Pricing?

[foursocks]

I train with an eventer and all of my friends event. Event horses are often not as careful because they aren’t expected to be and aren’t trained as jumpers. That doesn’t mean they aren’t capable of it- my own trainer has all of his riders go very jumper-y in stadium, which leads to cleaner rounds. A lot of eventers (I have noticed) pull rails because their horses jump in stadium somewhat as if they are on XC- long and flatter in the bascule. At the lower levels a lead change isn’t needed yet, so some of them don’t have that, either. However, a scopey event horse with good dressage in its foundation can absolutely be trained to be rounder in its jump, and you can find real bargains in horses that aren’t as good on XC as they need to be or don’t have the heart for it.

As everyone has said, though- if you want something already going successfully in the Ch/AA jumper ring the price range is (usually) automatically higher- even when the horse has issues of some sort.

[Madeline]

[QUOTE=BostonHJ;8421870]

Were they surprised it was “only” $30k or surprised it went for that much?[/QUOTE]

Surprised that they got that much.

[findeight]

[QUOTE=butiwantedapony;8421542]
That’s my point - producing the horses at a lower price point.

Just because a horse hasn’t been in the show arena 100 times doesn’t mean it isn’t capable - a well trained horse with the athletic ability to jump the height should have no issue getting around the course.[/QUOTE]

True it should not have issues just getting around but just getting around is rarely going to get anything except a rail or two and time faults and that’s not going to add a zero or even just another 10-20k to the price buyers are willing to pay.

That is a lower price point but might be too low for your efforts getting it that far.

[Lord_Helpus]

A child or an ammie does not want a 1.15m horse to jump around a 1.15m course. She needs a 1.25m horse so it can get her out of some Hail Mary distances. As the proficiency gets greater, the disparity between jump height and scope of the horse gets narrower; a junior jumper rider or an A/O jumper rider usually will get a horse to reasonable distances. So they might only need a 1.40m horse to jump around a 1.35m course.

But, anyone who is not a GP rider probably needs extra scope built into the horse, especially for jump offs where perfect balance and ideal distances are often merely suggestions, not absolutes.

[snowrider]

[QUOTE=wanderlust;8421377]
Eventing show jumping courses aren’t nearly as technical as jumper courses, and there is no jump off so you can’t tell how careful a horse is when the speed gets faster and turns get tighter. You also don’t know how it will place against a field of jumpers.

Not saying your horse can’t do it, just saying that you won’t get the big price tag without the record. That’s just the way it is.[/QUOTE]

These days eventing cross country courses are more technical than most AA jumper courses. You are not correct here at all. Most eventers would wipe the floor with the competition in the lows.

The theme of this thread seems to be that you need to pay a lot of money to get a packer or I dunno, you will both catch on fire. I posit that buying a horse you can afford and learning to ride better is also a viable option.

[Meany]

Personally, I expect for $20k you ought to be able to get something pretty solid for the AA jumpers.

You’ll probably have to troll barns that have one or two horses for sale, not several for you to try. You may find older, stepping-down type warmbloods or need to look at Thoroughbreds, but that ought to be very doable. I’m looking for a nice, tall pre-adult hunter in the 10-12 range for a client and keep seeing C/A jumper types for that ballpark. (Although I’m not calling about the jumpers, so maybe they all have major blemishes I’m overlooking!)

And as everyone else pointed out, I maybe wouldn’t expect to win in top company every weekend on that horse. But I would expect to find a solid, capable citizen.

[Janet]

[QUOTE=snowrider;8422483]
These days eventing cross country courses are more technical than most AA jumper courses. You are not correct here at all. Most eventers would wipe the floor with the competition in the lows.[/QUOTE]
It doesn’t matter how “technical” the courses are.

There is an inherent difference between riding to be “clean within the time allowed” and “fastest clear round”.

[woodhillsmanhattan]

@snowrider;8422483

These days eventing cross country courses are more technical than most AA jumper courses. You are not correct here at all. Most eventers would wipe the floor with the competition in the lows.

I would disagree. Two very different styles of riding for two very different disciplines. The ride required to get a horse through a technical question on xc is not the same ride to leave the rails up and be fast over a technical show jumping course. If you ride to a cross country combination like you would a showjumping combination you likely aren’t making it over the second obstacle. If you ride a show jumping combination like you ride a xc combination, you are likely to have a hind rail at the first element or a front rail at the second (plus not be able to make the turn after!). The upper level event riders I am sure could “wipe the floow”. But those are professionals that are already jumping a much higher track than amateurs and juniors competing in the 1.15m jumpers and are likely cross training in the 1.30m-1.40m jumpers. Your average training-prelim working ammy won’t look out of place and may be competitive in the adult jumpers, but I wouldn’t say they would “wipe the floor”. I have seen plenty of very talented AA jumper riders.

I love both disciplines, but they aren’t as readily comparable as many think IMO.

I do still think 20k is plenty reasonable for an AA jumper. You can even get a “packer”. To me, a “packer” is a horse that is going to do it’s job, take a joke, and still continue to do it’s job. Packer does not equal proven winner. It’s going to take a little more patience and maybe some compromise on age, carefulness, “proven” record, size, color, breed, etc. (not all of these, just listing examples) But it’s possible. That’s the best thing about jumpers. You could ride a mule (literally!) and still have a shot! My best advice would be to not be afraid to look in unlikely places. Don’t be afraid to look at the ones with an unconventional jumping style. Don’t overlook horses of various breeds, colors, mare/gelding, etc. Test their scope (free jump or have a pro/the owner jump them over a larger track) and see if you like the ride. That’s all that matters.

Also, sit down with your trainer. 40k above your budget is a waste of both of your time to look at.

[chicagojumper]

I know 2 of these type of horses for sale at the moment. They’re both on the younger side of middle aged, WBs, well broke on the flat with easy changes, and with established show records at national AA competition in both the high children’s and low jrs. Neither horse is a ride for somebody brand new to the jumper ring, but they’re fairly straightforward and can you out of the occasional jam as long as you’re not consistently missing on them. They’re both on the market for mid to high 5 figures.

Edited to add: I’m not trying to sell these horses to OP. I was providing pricing examples.

[comingback]

[QUOTE=chicagojumper;8422853]
I know 2 of these type of horses for sale at the moment. They’re both on the younger side of middle aged, WBs, well broke on the flat with easy changes, and with established show records at national AA competition in both the high children’s and low jrs. Neither horse is a ride for somebody brand new to the jumper ring, but they’re fairly straightforward and can you out of the occasional jam as long as you’re not consistently missing on them. They’re both on the market for mid to high 5 figures.[/QUOTE]

I think the op’s budget is 20k, not mid/high five figures.

[vxf111]

That horse can be found for $20,000 but it may take creative looking and some compromises in terms of age/breed/maintenance etc. But I have seen horses like what the OP wants sell for the budget the OP has. They’re not at big fancy sales barns and they require turning over stones and being able to see whether a horse is what you need whether it’s presented well or not. It may require some patience and time, but it can be done.

OP geographically where are you? Maryland? Give Melissa a call http://www.mandmequestrian.com/

she may not have what you need but she may be able to recommend places for you to look. Mary Hazzard is another “knows everyone, might put you in touch” person to contact

http://www.lanefieldfarm.com/

[chicagojumper]

[QUOTE=comingback;8422913]
I think the op’s budget is 20k, not mid/high five figures.[/QUOTE]

The point of OP’s thread was asking if mid 5 figures was what should be expected since she had looked at a BTDT ch/aa jumper priced at 60K and she was feeling some sticker shock. I gave an example to say that yes, she should probably expect that price range.

[Xctrygirl]

I have one.

He’s only 7 but has done 1.20 meter with me and was leased by a kid this summer and brought home consistent placings. Being ridden by an ammy now while still based at home with me.

~Emily

[Mango20]

Here’s 13 year old one in MD well within your price range. It might be worth asking about to see if there’s not a problem that isn’t disclosed in the ad. The pictures are all from 2014.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/grd/5339244690.html

[Jenerationx]

[QUOTE=Mango20;8423884]
Here’s 13 year old one in MD well within your price range. It might be worth asking about to see if there’s not a problem that isn’t disclosed in the ad. The pictures are all from 2014.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/grd/5339244690.html[/QUOTE]

Cute knees!

[winstonian]

[QUOTE=Mango20;8423884]
Here’s 13 year old one in MD well within your price range. It might be worth asking about to see if there’s not a problem that isn’t disclosed in the ad. The pictures are all from 2014.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/grd/5339244690.html[/QUOTE]

I know this horse a little. I’ve seen him at shows and his owner has brought him to school at the barn where I ride. I actually thought of him when I first saw this thread, but I couldn’t find an ad for him. He’s a really nice and honest horse. I don’t think he’s been shown extensively, but I think he’s done some A and AA shows at 1.15.

[wanderlust]

[QUOTE=snowrider;8422483]
These days eventing cross country courses are more technical than most AA jumper courses. You are not correct here at all. Most eventers would wipe the floor with the competition in the lows.

[/QUOTE] XC technicality has nothing to do with keeping rails up and going fast in showjumping. I’ve seen more than my fair share of training/prelim amateur eventers (and used to be one), and regardless of their XC prowess, they are with rare exception not showjumping machines, for a variety of valid reasons.

[jhg140]

My trainer just had a client looking for a prospect for the high AA jumpers, with a slightly smaller price point. Didn’t need to be doing them, just needed the scope and the quality. Even outside of the east coast, and considering the non-WBs, we were having a lot of trouble. A lot of horses advertised as legit 1.15m prospects… and then you see the videos. So one with legit 1.15m experience, and most likely a TB, I’d expect minimum 35k. A packer? 50-75k easy. The winner? Don’t get me started.

[SansPeurDansLaSelle]

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far, I really appreciate the advice.

I knew going into this that there was no way I would be able to afford anything close to the winner or a definite packer but something relatively safe that would at least allow me to play in the division. I have no problem with having something that can maybe do the regular classes and not classics or even a mix of the Lows and Highs. I’ve been showing in the Low Ch/AA Jumpers and Adult Eq for nearly 6 years now and would just like an opportunity to step into a “real” division.

I have no problem looking at eventers or OTTB’s, my previous mare who I still own and is now leased out was an OTTB from Stephen Bradley who I originally bought as a jumper prospect but discovered that she really liked packing around the 3’ equitation more. She is incredibly quirky, and never the winner of anything, but got me to a lot of horse shows and some good ribbons over the years.

I think part of my problem right now is a disconnect between what my trainer thinks I can afford and what I can actually write a check for. I ride with great trainers but they seem to be only willing to work with a select few channels for finding horses for clients which is fine for most of the people I ride with but I obviously have a serious budget. It’s gotten a little frustrating that we constantly have sale horses coming in and out that they want me to try, and have even allowed me to try at shows, but I’m never told the price at the beginning and then they seem to think I’ll just fall so much in love that I’ll somehow miraculously be able to write the check, which just results in me feeling heartbroken over and over again. My parents would likely be willing to give me a loan to bump me up to around 30k for something that looked like a good investment but that’s probably the best I can do right now.

My main worry is how to look at horses outside of my trainers without offending them. I love them and don’t want to leave at all but it’s obvious that this will require more leg work and looking in less obvious places than they are willing to do.

I’m also not sure if at this point it would be better to look at younger prospects or older packers. While I can appreciate all that a BTDT horse can offer this is probably the only horse I’ll be able to afford for awhile and I’m worried about only getting a short amount of time out of it and then having to figure out a retirement situation. I know my parents would prefer I look for something much younger, it’s not as though I’m a Junior with a time limit after all, so I can get the most time with this animal.

[vxf111]

Seems like you’ve got a whole 'nother problem really than “can I find a horse for this $$$.” a harder issue too. Have you been VERY VERY frank with your trainers that you have $X to spend and not a penny more? Have you ASKED if they mind you horse shopping more independently?