Charlotte Jorst buys Lorenzo - which pipeline did they come through ?

[ladyj79]

@Cowgirl

the only thing that bothers me is when a beginner rider buys a $200k horse in order to fly up the levels. I have seen that too, and what happens is that they don’t learn the basics. At some point, though, it does come home to roost.

Ah, but I’ve ridden the imported grand prix horse purchased by one of these riders.

Guess what? You still have to be able to ride.

Because she was nowhere near a grand prix rider, nowhere near any FEI level rider, she dropped him down to TRAINING. Because she was a training level rider on an old plug. But she surely wasn’t a training level rider on the grand prix horse, and he wasn’t a horse who tolerated a) mistakes b) lots of free time to think in a test. Needless to say, she didn’t fly up the levels, and in fact never rode him again. He went straight to the trainer to ride and show, and she bought a 20 year old third level horse.

This wasn’t even the only example of this situation at this particular barn. Actually, nearly every horse at this barn was this situation. Because all the money in the world can only take you so far, and many of these upper level horses are NOT suitable for your average ammie.

[SnicklefritzG]

Yes, but not everyone buys that horse and then goes out and boasts about trying to get on the team the next year.

Eve jobs and Jessica Springsteen over in jumper land have also gone out and bought very nice horses. But you don’t hear them boasting the way Charlotte jorst does which is one reason why there’s less negative commentary about them

@ladyj79

Not one single rider or buyer or syndicate is buying these horses to not try to qualify for teams/events. Not a single one.

[ladyj79]

@SnicklefritzG

Yes, but not everyone buys that horse and then goes out and boasts about trying to get on the team the next year.

Eve jobs and Jessica Springsteen over in jumper land have also gone out and bought very nice horses. But you don’t hear them boasting the way Charlotte jorst does which is one reason why there’s less negative commentary about them

And yet, there is still plenty of negative commentary from people regarding both of these riders.

[see_u_at_x]

I can’t help but wonder if some of the bitter taste left in people’s mouths about Charlotte may remain from her unprofessional attitude towards Gary Rockwell last year.

https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/dressage/322626-charlotte-jorst-calls-out-gary-rockwell

[Manni01]

@SnicklefritzG

Yes, but not everyone buys that horse and then goes out and boasts about trying to get on the team the next year.

Eve jobs and Jessica Springsteen over in jumper land have also gone out and bought very nice horses. But you don’t hear them boasting the way Charlotte jorst does which is one reason why there’s less negative commentary about them

I think it doesn’t matter what she is talking about.

I agree very much with Lady79.

Even if you spend all the money in the world, you still have to be able to ride the horse. Remember Totilas??? Even all these Millions did not guarantee them the perfect ridable horse. And he was surrounded by a very experienced team.

I think we all can lean back and watch what will happen. CJ is a perfect example how the horse industry works nowadays and the industry needs exactly these people. There are a couple of them in my neck of the woods as well. And for me it is very interesting to watch them and see what happens. If they make it, then I really respect them because then they deserved it, if not, I feel sorry for them because they spend all this money…

And by the way I think everybody needs to find his own way and to go this way without looking to other people. I still think if you ride really really well you will make your way… I guess Laura Graves is a very good example for that…Also in a way Charlotte Dujardin and Isabel Werth. They all made it up to the top without any money…

[Mardi]

@soloudinhere

Uh, what?

The acquisition of Ravel was the direct result of a search for a top horse with Olympic quality for Steffen to ride at the Olympics. Edward Gal produced the horse and he was purchased less than 2 years before the 2008 Olympics.

Yes, they were looking for an Olympic caliber horse. However Gal had only competed Ravel in the small tour before he was sold; they had not competed in GP.

It was Steffen who developed him into the internationally successful GP horse.

[Mardi]

@Equibrit

This is more about a rider the OP thinks has not put in enough hard work training/riding horses, to deserve a team place.

I never said that.

[MysticOakRanch]

@Equibrit

How many Olympic riders can you name, who have bought a ready made ride ?

We had at least one on our team last time around - a new rider on the team, whose parents could afford to buy her several “made” horses, and send her off to train in Europe. We NEED people who have the money to buy the horses - that is a discussion over and over and over. It was one reason the “pipeline” was created, to see if top horses could be matched with top riders, since we have limited $$$$ sponsors willing to buy the horses.

I’m not sure WHY Charlotte J stirs up such emotion - other then I think we all, secretly, wish we could be her for a day or two I know I have that secret envious feeling - when she bought Vitalis, I was GREEN with envy! Such a nice horse, good brain, fancy mover… And about 6 zeros out of my price range:o

[TwoTrickPony]

I think this has less to do with CJ than just the outright openness of how bought this sport has become. I think most of us really don’t have anywhere near this money. Dressage “used” to be a sport where you could kind of have a decent horse, work hard, and do OK. If you really stuck with it and worked hard, you might have Olympic aspirations. This just makes it openly clear that if you don’t have the money, or huge money behind you, as in jumpers, you don’t have a chance.

It’s just sad. It’s lovely to see all of these beautifully bred and trained horses, but it’s becoming all about that, not what I think most people think of as dressage–the training of the horse you have to the best of your and his ability.

I was looking at the foal videos of the hackneys on the breeders thread. Lovely, but they really don’t look much different than dressage horses now. I remember I showed a friend who has been in horses doing a little all around of everything forever a video of Totillas. She remarked he looks like a Saddlebred. Have we become that kind of sport?

[Cowgirl]

@ladyj79

Ah, but I’ve ridden the imported grand prix horse purchased by one of these riders.

Guess what? You still have to be able to ride.

Because she was nowhere near a grand prix rider, nowhere near any FEI level rider, she dropped him down to TRAINING. Because she was a training level rider on an old plug. But she surely wasn’t a training level rider on the grand prix horse, and he wasn’t a horse who tolerated a) mistakes b) lots of free time to think in a test. Needless to say, she didn’t fly up the levels, and in fact never rode him again. He went straight to the trainer to ride and show, and she bought a 20 year old third level horse.

This wasn’t even the only example of this situation at this particular barn. Actually, nearly every horse at this barn was this situation. Because all the money in the world can only take you so far, and many of these upper level horses are NOT suitable for your average ammie.

I am not disagreeing with you, however you only need 60% to get your medals and the bar for qualifying for regionals is not all that outrageous. So I do think it is easy to buy your way in than do the required work. Eventually it comes to roost, however.

But I need to be clear that my statement is not about CJ because I do think she HAS done the work on her riding. I have watched her improve significantly over the last few years (video I have seen). Clearly she is working HARD.

[honeylips]

[QUOTE=Manni01;n9769709

And by the way I think everybody needs to find his own way and to go this way without looking to other people. I still think if you ride really really well you will make your way… I guess Laura Graves is a very good example for that…Also in a way Charlotte Dujardin and Isabel Werth. They all made it up to the top without any money…[/QUOTE]

while isabel didn’t come from money she has had an incredibly wealthy sponsor forever. writing limitless 6 figure checks to buy isabel horses and employing her full time. isabel only has to ride, she has a palatial facility with multiple assistant riders. she doesnt have to teach lessons or clinics or anything for money. she only has to ride Frau Winter-Schulz’s horses.

[dressagegirl123]

Yes, and that’s how you get to the top of the world rankings. One way or another, millions of dollars will be spent for most riders to get there. Laura Graves’ high ranking is “the exception that proves the rule”, but, if someone doesn’t step up to finance a string for her, her ranking will end when her horse stops competing.
Charlotte hasn’t gone through the pipeline, true. No one has–it just started a few years ago! And who of us wouldn’t do what she is doing if we could? If you had that kind of money, would you just decide to buy a nice Training Level horse so you could move up the levels, so that jealous railbirds wouldn’t criticize you??? And what’s wrong with saying that she wants to get to WEG? So does everyone else who rides GP. Yes, its a reach, but if she can do it, more power to her! If she were a man saying it, we might not even have this thread. Its so much more acceptable for men to be openly ambitious.

[ladyj79]

@dressagegirl123

If she were a man saying it, we might not even have this thread. Its so much more acceptable for men to be openly ambitious.

AGREE!!!

[Manni01]

@honeylips

while isabel didn’t come from money she has had an incredibly wealthy sponsor forever. writing limitless 6 figure checks to buy isabel horses and employing her full time. isabel only has to ride, she has a palatial facility with multiple assistant riders. she doesnt have to teach lessons or clinics or anything for money. she only has to ride Frau Winter-Schulz’s horses.

Not sure, what this has to do with my answer. I wrote she made it to the top without money. She was at the top already when Madeleine Winter Schulze started to sponsor her.

[sammy14]

Isabell W had Uwe Shulten -Baumers horses to ride before that though ?

[dudleyc]

Personally I am a huge fan. I have never met Charlotte and I’ve only seen her videos, but she appears to be a VERY hardworking. She made her own fortune through hard work. Most importantly - her passion for dressage is her own.

We need to give her credit for her developing Kalypso from a first level horse to PSG (2003-2008) and Asterios from a 1st level 5 year old to GP (2004-2010). She is not just a woman that buys and rides made horses.

I love Lorenzo. I hope they kick ass.

[MysticOakRanch]

@TwoTrickPony

. I think most of us really don’t have anywhere near this money.

This quote is probably one of the most truthful and undisputable quotes ever on COTH

[Manni01]

@sammy14

Isabell W had Uwe Shulten -Baumers horses to ride before that though ?

She lived in the same area as Uwe Schulten-Baumer as a girl. He saw her riding and asked her to ride his horses. Thats how she got started…

[TequilaMockingbird]

@see u at x

I can’t help but wonder if some of the bitter taste left in people’s mouths about Charlotte may remain from her unprofessional attitude towards Gary Rockwell last year.

https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/dressage/322626-charlotte-jorst-calls-out-gary-rockwell

Yes, this definitely rubbed me the wrong way.

[Mardi]

@dudleyc

Personally I am a huge fan. I have never met Charlotte and I’ve only seen her videos, but she appears to be a VERY hardworking. She made her own fortune through hard work. Most importantly - her passion for dressage is her own.

We need to give her credit for her developing Kalypso from a first level horse to PSG (2003-2008) and Asterios from a 1st level 5 year old to GP (2004-2010). She is not just a woman that buys and rides made horses.

I love Lorenzo. I hope they kick ass.

Please keep in mind that she has not done this herself. There have been a multitude of trainers on both coasts and in Europe, who have guided her. She now has another one in California who will work with her and Lorenzo. Behind all of us (no matter what level) there are teachers who help.