Sorry, the miss use of “angst” , a very special word, is bugging me. It does not mean to be angry or to criticize. It is not a verb.
I also have admired Charlotte for her fast rise. Yes, she is fabulously wealthy and was able to purchase a nice string of solid GP schoolmasters, but she still has to ride them well enough to earn the scores.
I think Charlotte is a person for whom many things have come easy - she is beautiful, blonde and willowy, with the perfect build for riding dressage, she became a self-made multimillionaire at a relatively young age, she started and runs a successful equestrian clothing company, and she regularly scores in the high 60’s and into the 70’s at GP.
I am thnking that perhaps she thought an Olympic ticket would come as easily as everything else (even though she is currently well down the USEF Olympic ranking list). I can understand why she is so highly disappointed about the Rockwell score. But Gary calls them like he sees them, and she should have sucked it up and considered it a learning moment.
As an aside, there was some controversy some months back about the fact that Anne Gribbons gave a highly ranked rider a “5” for one movement at some big CDI. All the other judges gave the rider 6’s and 7’s for that movement. But there was a big “uh-oh” at the end of that movement, where the horse blew through a half-halt, the rider visibly yanked the horse in the mouth, and the horse threw its head up. All that happened in a nano-second, but it was right in front of Anne, and she dinged the movement accordingly. So this stuff does happen to other riders, where they get spanked by a judge for something that other judges did not see.
As someone mentioned above, Charlotte no longer shows as an AA and is now officially a “professional” - she should act like one. (And yes, I know in the equestrian world, there are “professionals” and then there are REAL professionals. ;))
This public complaint about a judge, by name, will not sit well with any other judge.
I’m on the fence.
I can sort of understand where she’s coming from. I agree the social media thing is unprofessional (oh my god, when will they learn!!) and generally a bad idea. But dodgy judging should be chased up - a letter to USDF might have been wiser…
We were at dressage last year, and scored 60% and got some downright nasty comments. This is a horse with an average of 68%, he always places top 3 and although has some minor issues, goes quite sweetly. We came 2nd out of about 15 on that score! Everyone apart from the winner and I were in the 50s. It was a fairly strong field. I DREAD to think what she said on the sheets of the other competitors. Anyway, several people complained to the venue about her and she hasn’t been invited back. Thank god, vile woman. I was stood next to her watching the warmup and she kept making nasty comments and going ‘EURGHH’ about people warming up for the Medium, not caring that their friends and family were stood right there! I did wonder if she had a screw loose.
I do wish I had got in touch with BD, although the score was fine, the comments were odd and largely irrelevant. (I had the test on film so could check!)
Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant.
Whilst I agree that a lot of the time you just need to lump it, sometimes judges can be crap, and if no-one says anything, no improvements will be made. It’s a bl**dy expensive sport, I personally expect decent, somewhat uniform judging for my > £200 membership fee, let alone entries. Competing at the level Jorst is at, the costs are astronomical, and erratic judging cannot be accepted. Whether the 66% or 70%+ is the erratic score is up to you 
If the score had comments that justified it, that is a different matter.
[QUOTE=Silverbridge;8562959]
http://centerlinescores.com/Rider/Details/39514#filterBy=scores
She has scores going back 14 years. But FEI scores going back only ten years (2006).[/QUOTE]
I think it goes back even further then that, I think. C-line was a little incomplete in the earlier years. Her horses weren’t quite as fancy back then;) But she still had schoolmasters (above first/2nd level) - and back then, THAT was pretty impressive (having a schoolmaster of any kind).
At Championships this past year, we had one judge that was consistently 5 to 7% lower on just about every single ride. It happens - I was shocked, got my lowest score of the year from her! And possibly one of my better rides of the weekend. Oh well, such is dressage.
I wouldn’t call a judge out on FB - not sure that is a politically savvy thing to do. Usually Charlotte is very good at marketing - must have been a bad day for her?
[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8563546]
Goes back even further then that - C-line doesn’t go back before “digital history”. I can remember competing against her in the early 90s… Her horses weren’t quite as fancy back then;) But she still had schoolmasters - and back then, THAT was pretty impressive (having a schoolmaster of any kind).
At Championships this past year, we had one judge that was consistently 5 to 7% lower on just about every single ride. It happens - I was shocked, got my lowest score of the year from her! And possibly one of my better rides of the weekend. Oh well, such is dressage.
I wouldn’t call a judge out on FB - not sure that is a politically savvy thing to do. Usually Charlotte is very good at marketing - must have been a bad day for her?[/QUOTE]
That is odd since in her 2014 interview at age 49, she states she took her very first riding lesson at age 35 which would make that 2000. I see from CL scores she showed Second level in 2002…an impressive feat to go from a beginner to second level in 2 years. I agree with the previous post about despite the access to schoolmasters, it still takes make years to develop a partnership with a horse. There is no substitute to time.
[QUOTE=NJRider;8563568]
That is odd since in her 2014 interview at age 49, she states she took her very first riding lesson at age 35 which would make that 2000. I see from CL scores she showed Second level in 2002…an impressive feat to go from a beginner to second level in 2 years. I agree with the previous post about despite the access to schoolmasters, it still takes make years to develop a partnership with a horse. There is no substitute to time.[/QUOTE]
It was late 90s, not early 90s - I corrected in my post. So that could be about right since I think that article is a few years old. I totally agree, it takes a lot of time to build a relationship with a horse, especially to show at those levels!
At the risk of being accused of joining a pile on- (how does one post in agreement with others without it being called a pile on) - this was not a smart or professional thing to do and publicly calling out an individual judge like this actually gains her worse than nothing.
Think if the judges marks were reversed and one judge gave the higher mark. Another Travesty of Judging?
But of course- If there is a legitimate reason to complain - complain through the proper channels- dont whine publicly on facebook. Good luck with that approach.
Otherwise, if no grounds for an official complaint, best thing she could do now is post a public apology for her unsportsmanlike remarks and learn to take a page from how the other pros deal with these disappointments
[QUOTE=Silverbridge;8563012]
That was my thought.
And I really appreciate that she (via her company, I mean) sponsors many shows. I think it’s great when wealthy people step up to help subsidize competitions, and do so even when their assistance aids the very people who’re grousing jealously about the wealthy competitors’ advantages.
It’s too bad she went so far as to put that out there, publicly.[/QUOTE]
I have only heard positive comments about Charlotte due to the type of things Silverbridge mentions.
I agree that it was poor form putting this out there, though. I have heard comments similar to “it’s too bad who she chooses to train with, she’s so nice and such a talented rider.” One has to wonder IF it wasn’t a deserved score, if it was a statement on her trainer. However, I have repeatedly seen judges give no higher than a 6 when there is a spook in lower level tests while scribing, so that seems appropriate at the international level from my know-nothing peon view, so I don’t tend to think it was a political statement, but rather how he chooses to score what he saw there for anyone.
I also haven’t been able to see the video - I’m glad it appears the post was deleted, but would have liked to see the ride.
This might NOT be the ride in cause in this thread but could give an idea of their partnership.
Charlotte Jorst on Akeem Foldager - Week 5
She’s not the first one to complain about score discrepancy…and there seem to be some bias against her trainer Andreas Helgstrand.
Talking about it on facebook? Hum…not so much.
But it is funny to see how people would cry out loud at how the judging system is failing and how it should be more controled/uniform/reformed/unbiaised, and now they’re like, yeah judges are right and shut it! (without even seeing the ride/the comments/the scores)
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Some of us have known Charlotte for many years, and just think this is par for the course with her. Let’s just say she’s a bit eccentric.
I don’t want to be too blunt, but I’m not in the least surprised. I wish her horses well.
I’ve seen some recent video of her and was pleasantly surprised by how well she is riding these days. She must be getting good instruction and listening to it. But tests are tests, and there can certainly be some tough moments in the ring. It happens to everyone. Horses are not machines.
Gary Rockwell can be a tough judge, but he absolutely knows what he is looking at. He calls it as he sees it, and I’ve yet to see what he does and disagree.
Charlotte has been riding long before 2000, when I first boarded with her. There were no schoolmasters back then, she took lessons and worked like everyone else. After she sold Skagen for megabucks, she decided to go big time. She is relatively inexperienced at FEI, esp. GP, and to my knowledge, has never trained a horse up. In my mind, that makes her an amateur, no matter what her USEF designation is.
I think it’s political suicide to publicly diss a well respected judge like that- especially one who has walked the walk as Gary has. But how many of us in the heat of the moment have done similar venting? Probably anyone who shows. Just, as many have pointed out, keep it private.
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Livestream archives can be seen here: http://gdf.coth.com/category/live_streams
Usually takes them a day or two afterward the event to post them.
[QUOTE=alibi_18;8563749]
This might NOT be the ride in cause in this thread but could give an idea of their partnership.
Charlotte Jorst on Akeem Foldager - Week 5
)[/QUOTE]
There were a couple of technical errors, like loss of rhythm at times, but to me that looked like a happy horse, and her comment implied she was dinged on harmony/submission.
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Since that video was posted in February it really is not relevant to these results 
[QUOTE=alibi_18;8563749]
This might NOT be the ride in cause in this thread but could give an idea of their partnership.
Charlotte Jorst on Akeem Foldager - Week 5
She’s not the first one to complain about score discrepancy…and there seem to be some bias against her trainer Andreas Helgstrand.
Talking about it on facebook? Hum…not so much.
But it is funny to see how people would cry out loud at how the judging system is failing and how it should be more controled/uniform/reformed/unbiaised, and now they’re like, yeah judges are right and shut it! (without even seeing the ride/the comments/the scores)[/QUOTE]
This isn’t the ride that accompanied her FB post.
[QUOTE=Crockpot;8563907]
Since that video was posted in February it really is not relevant to these results [/QUOTE]
I know. I wasn’t sure which ride it was at first so I wrote “might not”. It was just to show an example of her riding since people couldn’t find a video of the ride.
Now, I know which ride we are talking about: class 501 during the Palm Beach Derby week on last saturday which was livestreamed. The archive is not working for me right now… I watched it “live” but can’t remember any major mistakes.
If you look at the results on Fox Village, the discrepancy in the ranking for that judge is huge. His ranking is really close to the final ranking for everyone else (1-5) but for her, which he placed 11 (her final ranking is 6).
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Not a good idea to post a disagreement with a judge like this on the internet. It cannot be erased. A confidential evaluation is the only way to go. I think it is funny how she says that she has been doing “nothing but work on harmony.” I think harmony is the result of many factors in riding a dressage test.
People need to think before posting negatives like this on the internet. This is not the first case that I have seen. Maybe a good topic for the Chronicle of the Horse or another dressage magazine.
[QUOTE=egood;8562828]
“Tonight i had an oustanding test the beautiful and talented Kastels Akeem. The judges were almost in agreement. Everyone were at 70 to almost 72% except for Gary Rockwell who had Akeem at a 66%. Harmony between rider and horse was a 6 from Gary. That’s hurtful. I have done nothing but work on the harmony. But take a look, what do we think? 66 or 72?”
https://www.facebook.com/cjorst1/videos/vb.1092907217/10208187026928713/?type=2&theater
Isn’t the whole point of having multiple judges to allow for disagreements? I think this is pretty unprofessional.[/QUOTE]
Wonder if she considered that Gary is on the panel at Rio.
[QUOTE=alibi_18;8563958]
If you look at the results on Fox Village, the discrepancy in the ranking for that judge is huge. His ranking is really close to the final ranking for everyone else (1-5) but for her, which he placed 11 (her final ranking is 6).[/QUOTE]
I think CJ has done a remarkable job with that horse Akeem, so hats off to her.
That said, I think Gary is one of the most correct judges out there and I believe his score is accurate for what he saw. Remember judges can have completely different impressions, depending on where they are sitting.
As far as CJ has come, what I have seen in the video feeds is that she is still not effectively balancing him uphill and his tempis tend to swing and be a bit on the forehand; walk can be lateral; zig zag not always well placed. I never see her do a real half halt, but she tends to pump and spur in the piaffe and see saw his face for reinback. Granted, I did not see THIS ride, but the few I have seen have been consistent in this respect. I don’t see how a ride could be more than 65-68, no matter how spectacular the horse, if the rider doesn’t keep the horse moving uphill and is either just sitting there or overriding a bit. Anyway, just my opinion, fwiw (not much). All of that said, she has improved quite a bit from a year ago where I found her riding completely ineffective and admired the quality of training on the horses she was able to acquire. So well done and it is moving in the right direction.
Her behavior, btw, is tantrum behavior and quite a bit different from another rider in the classes this past weekend whose horse had a meltdown at a camera in the GPF. That rider didn’t blame the horse or the camera people, and was a class act.
There have been a few other very wealthy people who have thrown this sort of trantrum when they expect to quickly buy their way into the Olympics. It’s not that they are NOT working hard–I can see that they are–but the ring craft, calm, support for the horse, all take years and years of experience. Watch Carl Hester’s ride on Nip Tuck in Jerez to see a Masterclass on just this. Steffen P is another one who rides so accurately, he is able to get every point out of his horse. CJ is still leaving way too much on the table, IMO.
I heard second hand that CJ has apologized to Rockwell
