Charlotte Jorst calls out Gary Rockwell

[Beentheredonethat]

I disagree about Steffen and Udon. He has put in the time and brought horses up, and Udon was a quality, well-trained horse that was just as good as anything at the time. I saw him compete in CA, but I was impressed at the Olympics. Udon wasn’t the most exciting horse, but he was consistent across the board, like a 7 at least on everything. He just wasn’t an “in” rider at the time and was underscored.

And I think we have plenty of people who bring horses along through the levels. I’ve watched the west coast riders all ride all levels and train their own horses for 30 years–Hilda, Charlotte Bredhal (she has a GREAT story she told at champs about this), Steffen, Guenter, Leslie (both), Jan, etc. The field is deep. I’m not so familiar with the east coast riders, but there are more than a few that have proved their metal.

We just have a different culture which doesn’t support it and don’t have multi-billion dollar companies (Glock, Blu Horse, etc.) supporting our riders. They’re working on it, but so far it’s only been individuals. The lack of money relatively to support a whole system makes a difference. And, as by this thread, you can see what unlimited finances can do for you in the sport.

[Mardi]

Which young horses has Guenter Seidel brought up through the levels ?
(not trying to be snarky…just asking)

When Dick and Jane Brown were his sponsors, they bought several made horses for him, and he was on the team for years. Then he was seriously injured at the Balkenhol’s, and later the Brown’s terminated their sponsorship.

After his recovery, Gwen Meyer provided him with the GP mare Coral Reef Wylea, previously owned by Anabel Balkenhol. Wylea went lame, and now he rides
M/M Mashburn’s Zero Gravity, and is headed to the WC.

[DownYonder]

Yes, TPTB on the dressage committee at USEF have realized for some time that for the US to be truly competitive on the world stage, there has to be a LOT of coddling and encouragement toward deep-pocketed owners. Akiko has been a godsend for US dressage, and it is fortunate that she and Steffen connected and made such a strong partnership. There are other very wealthy owners backing various riders, but none quite so visibly or so successful (yet) as Akiko.

And now Charlotte Jorst has entered the picture, with her mega-millions. But instead of buying super talented horses for her coach (Guenter) to compete for the U.S., she has decided to do it herself. I admire her for her accomplishments, and for her spunk, and hope she learned an important lesson from her recent faux pas.

But as several folks have said earlier - the one I admire the MOST is Laura Graves, who brought her horse along from a foal. Is there any other top rider in the world who has done that?

[dudleyc]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;8586256]

But as several folks have said earlier - the one I admire the MOST is Laura Graves, who brought her horse along from a foal. Is there any other top rider in the world who has done that?[/QUOTE]

Just to be playfull - perhaps Heather Blitz and Paragon. Although they seem to have topped out at the small tour, she is now doing quite well with Rip Tide.

[dressagegirl123]

Heather and Paragon were the reserves for London. Hardly topping out at small tour. I’m not sure what happened after that–their fortunes have declined.

[Helicon]

Heather has brought three horses to the CDI Grand Prix level - Paragon, Arabella (from Training Level to Grand Prix), and Otto. She took the ride over on Otto when he was scoring 58-62 at Second level. She trained him up to Grand Prix and was competing him in Europe when he was bought out for Todd Flettrich. She seems to be on track with Ripline now, competing on the small tour and he’s just 8.

People who can train their own Grand Prix horses impress the heck out of me. I think a lot of our top riders are capable, but they don’t have/take the time. Not every horse is a sure thing and if they don’t make it, you never get that time back.

[Beentheredonethat]

[QUOTE=Mardi;8586225]
Which young horses has Guenter Seidel brought up through the levels ?
(not trying to be snarky…just asking)[/QUOTE]

I wish I could think of names! Maybe someone down in LA can remember. Guenter’s been around a long time bringing up horses. He came up from Germany when he was young and was working his way up. He’s ridden a bunch of horses. I remember scribing at a championships once for Pierre Morph with him riding 2nd level or something on a B horse, and it was the best extended/collected transition I’d ever seen and I commented on that, and Morph agreed and gave him a 10.

Does anyone remember? I can’t find anything on his website.

[dudleyc]

UII he started showing in 2007 at 1st level and brought up the levels to GP -according to centerline scorres

[candico]

Hilda has brought several horses along from foal to Grand Prix as well as Keen…

But I don’t necessarily think that makes anyone better than the other top riders.

[Beentheredonethat]

Yep. Hilda has brought along a bunch as well as many other people. My response of the list of names is we don’t have the depth of riders that have brought along horses versus buying in. It’s totally not true. We have many riders who have and have proven thier metal.

I think it generally does make someone a better rider if they have brought horses up through the level. It differentiates a lot when you have all resources and can buy the experience to do well versus having done it. That goes to my first remark about Charlotte. She rides differently than the riders who have bveen all of this and I can see this in the way she rides, the mistakes she makes, etc. Thus I agreed with the judge’s way of seeing this and telling her in the remarks.

[kkj]

I think it undermines the legitimacy of horse sports as a bonifide sport in relation to other sports when someone can buy a horse that someone else has already brought up to international level and then go secure a spot on the team on that horse. Makes me think of all the people over the years who have said something to me like, “riding isn’t a sport, because the horse does all the work.” In swimming you can not buy an incredible body or in basketball or tennis or any other sport. Of course I know that riding is a sport and a difficult one at that. I also agree that many many people could not ride a well trained talented Grand Prix horse no matter how much effort, lessons, etc. Charlotte is obviously a talented rider but she is not talented or experienced in the way that a lot of other people especially a lot who ride for Germany, Holland, the UK, etc are. Also I know that a lot of people in the US have brought horses up from baby or greenie to Grand Prix- Hilda, many more local trainers, whoever. However it is very very uncommon for these Grand Prix horses to be of international caliber. They are usually just locally or maybe nationally competitive. What we don’t have are people who are reliably bringing up horses to the highest level like they have in Europe. We don’t have the Edward Gals and the Isabel Werths in this country. We don’t have the system that can search out those amazing prospects and bring them along like they can. In the US, I have numerous times seen people go and spend a total fortune on this or that young prospect from this or that elite auction, fancy European stud or wherever and the horse really goes no where. When it comes to our intenationally competitive horses, we meaning US team riders just go and buy them or have someone else buy them. Once in awhile there is an amazing exception to this ie) Laura Graves, Debbie MacDonald (Brentina was bought at an auction as I believe a 3 year old) and I think they deserves mad respect. I honestly believe that Brentina or Verdades in the hands of most people in the US including trainers would not have amounted to the international super stars that they became because they had one of the few US riders that are truly gifted at bringing a horse along. Overall as a country, we are just not that skilled as a whole in bringing horses along and as long as we can buy our ways in, I doubt we will become that skilled either.

[Equibrit]

What you have not taken in to account is that the people you so admire from Europe, whom you say have trained horses up through the levels, have not. They may have shown them at lower levels. The early training is usually left to a young horse producer, and later training undertaken by an assistant, until the horse has reached the FEI levels. This guarantees the ULR horses that are trained to their personal preference, and riders who learn to train them.

[DownYonder]

To be sure, there are numerous riders in the U.S. and elsewhere who have taken young horses up the levels. But I can’t think of anyone other than Laura Graves who has taken a horse from FOAL to TOP international contender.

As others have stated, very few riders at the upper echelons of the sport have the time or the desire to raise up a foal, get it started, bring it along, etc. It’s an enormously long, risky and expensive process. Yes, you can cut expenses if you are lucky enough to own your own farm where you can raise up a foal, and if you can do the breaking, etc., yourself, but I doubt there are many TOP riders in the world in the position to do those things. And again - not many are willing to put the first rides in. And I can’t say as I blame them.