Charlotte Jorst calls out Gary Rockwell

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=kkj;8568918]
I am one of those people who totally pulls for Laura Graves, Liz Austin and Alyssa Pitts and anyone else who can pick out a horse as an unstarted youngster and bring it up to FEI. I think one of the shortcomings of US dressage is we have so few people who can do that. Think about it. Steffen’s horses Ravel, Rosamunde etc were bought after they were already brought along by Europeans… [/QUOTE]

But keep in mind Udon, Steffen’s young horse whom he brought with him when he moved to the US in the 1980’s. Steffen brought him up through the levels, and they ultimately competed in the '96 Atlanta Olympics, where the US team won the bronze medal.

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=kkj;8568918]
I am one of those people who totally pulls for Laura Graves, Liz Austin and Alyssa Pitts and anyone else who can pick out a horse as an unstarted youngster and bring it up to FEI. I think one of the shortcomings of US dressage is we have so few people who can do that. Think about it. Steffen’s horses Ravel, Rosamunde etc were bought after they were already brought along by Europeans… [/QUOTE]

Please don’t leave out Udon, Steffen’s young horse whom he brought with him when he moved to the US in the 1980’s. Steffen brought him up through the levels, and they ultimately competed in the '96 Atlanta Olympics, where the US team won the bronze medal.

[suzy]

[QUOTE=Crockpot;8568935]
Yes wrong charlotte- you may want to delete that or more confusion will ensue :lol:

You wont find Charlotte DJ making this sort of blunder. Ever.[/QUOTE]

And there is certainly never any shortage of confusion here!

[Equibrit]

[QUOTE=Mardi;8569261]
But keep in mind Udon, Steffen’s young horse whom he brought with him when he moved to the US in the 1980’s. Steffen brought him up through the levels, and they ultimately competed in the '96 Atlanta Olympics, where the US team won the bronze medal.[/QUOTE]

Not without some jiggery pokery though ! http://articles.latimes.com/1992-02-21/local/me-2475_1_bureaucratic-red-tape

[Mardi]

Not sure what the article (published in 1992) has to do about him competing in Atlanta in 1996 ? It talks about his desire to be eligible to compete in '92 Barcelona.

Sorry I’m missing the point.

[alibi_18]

[QUOTE=Mardi;8570204]
Not sure what the article (published in 1992) has to do about him competing in Atlanta in 1996 ? It talks about his desire to be eligible to compete in '92 Barcelona.

Sorry I’m missing the point. :([/QUOTE]

Don’t worry, I think Equibrit haven’t dring enough coffee yet.

[Pipkin]

[QUOTE=kkj;8568918]
In Europe there are a lot of people who can and do bring horses along themselves and fewer people who just go out an buy a made one.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, not completely true. We still get many who buy success. And you know what, you see this especially with the Young Riders - though it can be argued that a schoolmaster is the best thing for a YR. Perhaps Charlotte is at the stage where a school master will improve her riding the most, in which case that is fair enough. The end goal for anyone would probably be to bring your own up through the levels - but not everyone gets there, and it’s much harder to train a horse at a level you’re not confident at yourself. This little outburst did make her sound bratty, and if you are one of the lucky few who can throw millions at stuff, you have to avoid brattyness at all costs unless you want to be the recipient of bad feeling.

I wonder if they could get a separate panel to judge the video and see where they come out? Would be interesting if they too wrote 66%. I think either we need to see more of a range in scores (with more in the 40s and more in the 80s) where a few points either way in a panel won’t seem so odd, or the panels need to be more uniform. As it stands, there is a huge difference between a 66% and a 72% test (one I would say is ‘solid’ and the other ‘outstanding’) so I can’t help but wonder why each judge saw something different.

But yes, poor taste - hopefully she’s apologised and it’s all been straightened out.

[atlatl]

[QUOTE=rothmpp;8568964]
And this is a great example of how one person’s interaction with a person can color your view of them forever…[/QUOTE]

What’s the saying; you never get a second chance to make a first impression? So true.

[Mardi]

Someone’s PR department is trying to mend fences…

http://psdressage.com/viewarticle.php?id=2265

Facebook post ? What Facebook post…

[Mardi]

Someone’s PR department is trying to mend fences…

http://psdressage.com/viewarticle.php?id=2265

[sammy14]

She seems to have forged a nice relationship with Akeem, and he looks happy, so i’m happy for him and by default, her

[kkj]

I am not saying that Steffen can’t ride. I have super respect for his riding but the horse that he brought along from baby to Grand Prix, Udon, would not even be competitive today from the videos I have seen. The last several stars he has had, have been bought for him to “score in the 80s”, make this or that team etc. We do not have much depth in the US of riders who can or do bring horse up in the way that many people do in Holland, Germany, UK etc. I am sure many in those countries go out and buy this or that star but many also bring those horses along. In the US, we don’t seem to frown too hard on people who buy their way in but in Europe there is more shame in it. There just is. Charlotte belongs here because she has no shame swooping in like a circling vulture to buy that tarnished star Akeem Foldager when his rider fell upon disfavor. I personally thought it was super tacky, but also super American. I have a lot of respect for people like Laura Graves who I really hope continues to kick butt and goes onto have a long career on other horses she brings along herself. I am also not someone who is just patriotic and supports Americans. I love that Adelinde Cornlissen got Parzival after he had sent a couple of other riders to the hospital. I believe she was a school teacher and not even a pro rider and she stuck with that very difficult young Jazz gelding and eventually made it to the top. Those are type of dressage athletes I pull for, not someone who buys their way in and then throws her toys out of the cot when one judge doesn’t score her as highly as she thinks she “deserves”.

[hoopoe]

It is my understanding that in Europe, there are those who specialize in starting young horses with the intent to move them on to the elite riders

Not all elite riders there start their young horses

[kkj]

hoopoe, you are totally correct, however a lot more people there do bring a horse along from say green broke or lower levels to Grand Prix. Also a lot of the people who compete internationally in Europe have and can do so. There are also people like Hans Peter Minderhoud who have ridden a ton of young horses and also compete internationally on the highest level. We don’t have much of that over here. We just don’t and we have people like Charlotte Jorst who will now be competing in the World Cup and bought their way there entirely. We will never compete on par with the best dressage countries until we have more people who can and are willing to dedicate so much effort to bringing these top caliber horses along.

[Manni01]

[QUOTE=hoopoe;8585113]
It is my understanding that in Europe, there are those who specialize in starting young horses with the intent to move them on to the elite riders

Not all elite riders there start their young horses[/QUOTE]

Dorothee Schneider, Ingrid Klimke, Isabel Werth and Uta Graef are good examples for riders who develope their own GP horses…

[netg]

I see this difference in attitude as part of the reason why there are so many fewer US horses available.

While Charlotte and Carl may not ride their young horses at first - I know I saw something where Carl commented on not being able to afford time off, so he lets someone else be the crash test dummy - they guide their training from the start. If we had more trainers bringing up young horses here, whether they owned them or had owners who supported the long process, we would theoretically have more potential international horses, and more riders with the experience to train horses up the levels - a positive cycle of education.

I know locally I see many trainers who train their own up the levels (and of course are willing to show horses someone else has trained for owners as well), but wonder if when you get to our international competitors the flying around the world and using clinics to help support themselves is harder than the European model? Steffen wasn’t yet established as a big name when he had Udon, Laura wasn’t with Diddy, Adrienne wasn’t yet - and she at least is still bringing horses up herself while still competing on one who was bought for her. If I understand correctly, Guenter and Jan have both trained some of their most prominent horses up the levels? I thought Leslie Morse had as well, Catherine Haddad Staller is attempting to do so, etc?

[dudleyc]

Does anyone know why Charlotte and Akeem were eliminated this past weekend?

[EmilyF]

While Charlotte and Carl may not ride their young horses at first

Carl is open that he sends his babies to an event rider locally to do the first 30 days, but I believe Charlotte still starts all of her babies herself.

We will never compete on par with the best dressage countries until we have more people who can and are willing to dedicate so much effort to bringing these top caliber horses along.

I’m willing
Does anyone with a string of babies want to take a chance on a young trainer?? :lol:

[EmilyF]

Double post

[BigMama1]

I sense a lot of bitterness about someone who can afford to buy the best “made” horses. Sure it may be a shortcut but she still has to be able to ride hem. I guarantee you hat if you dropped those horses off at my barn tomorrow they would be unrideable in 6 months. I can’t ride a GP horse and I certainly couldn’t score consistently in the high 60s on one