As in she occasionally walks him outside the ring? Or as in you can trot and canter him up and down hills and around fields on a soft rein? Because I would personally have no desire to attempt the latter on horses like him with the exaggerated gaits. Would love to see a video to show me that it can be done and that these horses are more efficient, self sufficient, and practical than they look. Because they look like a novelty act to me to where I scratch my head as to why this would be bred for, trained for, and rewarded. Maybe I am being unfair and itās the extreme collection and micromanaging that creates the impression that these horses canāt do anything practical. Regardless, my biggest concern is that they look consistently stressed and unhappy, and non horse people seem more attentive to that at this point than the dressage communityā¦
Yes, I am surprised at all the ink being spilled about this clearly young rider (who may or may not have been an experienced horse person at the time of that lesson) not standing up to multi-Olympic and World medalist and literal face of the sport Charlotte Dujardin. Itās easy to say, āWell, I would have done x.ā But thereās a major power differential between a 15-17 year old junior and one of the worldās most decorated, well-liked, well-networked riders and public equestrian figures.
Would it have been better if the junior had realized what was going on and stopped it? Of course. Perhaps they didnāt realize what was happening, because Charlotte has a well-established public image of āgentlerā dressage. Perhaps they were afraid of professional ramifications if they pushed back on, again, one of the most powerful and well-connected equestrian athletes in the world. From the Guardian article: āMy client asked around and was warned against speaking out in the UK.ā Do I hope they have since learned to recognize abusive training practices and choose their trainers judiciously? Of course.
But Charlotte was the teacher, the professional, and (if the Guardian is correct) the adult in that situation. It was her responsibility first and foremost to not put her teenage studentās horse in a dangerous position, and it appears that in that moment, she chose otherwise. It is her actions that are most relevant here, whatever they are.
As others have mentioned, no matter what the video shows, it is a sad day for the sport.
Remember when Courtney King Dye was touring as a clinician after her accident? She traveled with a rider who could sub-in and ride the horse for the owner to see what CKD was asking for, but could no longer do herself.
I audited a clinic. I saw a number of owners become overwhelmed and unhappy at what they were seeing done to their horses at CKDs direction by the sub. A few of them scratched rather than ride. Others refused to relinquish their horses. It was pretty bad. But I get it why the overwhelmed but quiet said nothing. Itās hard. Itās hard in the moment to rise up and confront and make anything like noise. Conflict sucks.
Railing at people to just effing do it already isnāt particularly effective as a teaching tool. Like wailing on a horse isnāt either.
The pressure on the riders at this level is so damn high. Gaits are all important. Expression is all important. If you reduced the emphasis on this, then would there be a need to resort to bungees, weighted boots. excessive whipping and tie downs?
I did not see the video so the only thing I can speculate on is that it must be bad enough that CDJ withdrew from a very important competition and took her punishment. Honestly, when you are a public figure, you have to be held to example standards. About the 4 year (or 2-1/2 year) delay and timingāwell it sucks, but honestly I believe that the complaint would not have gotten traction before such atrocities as Parra and Helgstrand were exposed.
I very much believe that this is a course correction that is needed for our sport to survive. Still, I donāt think it will survive until we address judging and the emphasis placed on the leg flinging and overbent necks, over relaxation and harmony.
Does anyone on this board think that Glamourdale looks like a pleasant horse to hack across a field, or does it look more Big Lick novelty action to you? How many upper level dressage horses look happy, content, and relaxed in their work to you? If you had a foal you raised and cared for, would you want them sold into this lifestyle? Or would you cringe at the heavy handed, unyielding control?
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Ok - I saw a video of a stallion show at the breeder/owner of Glamordale. He was brought into the arena and warmed up for the crowd before moving on to the ātricksā. I was expecting to not like what I was going to see. But he was LOVELY being ridden in a longer more open frame. Supple, elastic, happy, forward. I was really impressed when I expected to be rolling my eyes at the training. He did really look like a fun horse to ride (not for me - I could never ride a horse like that) and I could certainly see that he might be a blast to hack out. So unless you see the horse in training I donāt think you can always say that the training is bad when you only see the horse in competition. I mean - you can get an idea but it might not be the whole picture.
As far as CDJ - I will not pass judgement until I see the video. She might have just figured it wasnāt worth the effort to fight and it was better to admit that she had erred and let it blow over. So who knows how bad it was?
There is a 17 year old girl that rides mostly dressage at the barn I board at. She is the absolute sweetest, most polite, soft spoken kid, and a gorgeous natural rider to boot. Iām seeing people say that rider should have just stopped the lesson, and all I can picture is the girl I know in that situation. She 100% would not have stopped either, she would have assumed that the olympic gold medalist dressage rider who is basically a celebrity and has a great reputation knows best. She would not have the experience to even really recognize when the āencouragementā with a whip crosses the line to abuse, or how she would go about even attempting to stop it if she was uncomfortable. Saying that rider is at fault for not just ending the session really bothers me, and frankly is just wrong. And I say that as a woman, in aerospace engineering, who will happily speak up against the guys when I think they are wrong.
Also, itās impossible to know what the whip usage really was without seeing the video. 24 times in a minute sounds awful at first, but thatās really less than every two seconds. Which, a rhythmic tap every other second in time with the gait to get more engagement is not a bad thing. A rhythmic hard whack, maybe not so much. Non-rhythmic random bursts of hard whipping, definitely not good. The whip itself makes a difference too. I experimented once to see what intensity of whacking myself with the dressage whip hurt, it was way harder than I personally would ever use on a horse before it started stinging much.
Basicallyā¦based on Charlotteās statement and everything else, Iām going to assume it was pretty bad, but Iām not personally going to say CDJ is a cruel trainer for sure unless the evidence showing that comes out. She is still an excellent rider regardless, but her training/coaching/horsemanship is pending judgement for now.
Beating a horse 24 times in the legs with a whip? Nope. Never did. Have you?
Yāall must be gymnasts the way you twist and contort to defend a person the FEI saw fit to suspend. But not just that, the FEI suspended a probable medal winner. So between that and the letter ADMITTING she did something bad, itās amazing to watch the fan club go full protect mode.
Iāve spoken to people who were in those yards. No Saint has been accused.
Based on my own experiences I agreeā¦ I was 19 and my life got ruined because I tried to stand up against a horse abuserā¦ I had to leave town and lost all my friends and until today this guy is well respected and connected in Germany (( he is very good friends with one of the top guys in our FN).
So unless you plan to ruin your equestrian life you better shut upā¦.)
Nowadays I do stop things I know are abusiveā¦ but I am old and have not much to loose. In fact I did stop a BNT who suggested I should beat up my horseā¦. He did have a total melt down and ignores me ever since and I watched him doing similar things with a young rider who did what he suggestedā¦. It worked ok but IMO there are nicer ways to get thereā¦.
But nobody should imagine that dressage horses have a nice relaxed lifeā¦.
Without seeing the video, if it was a case of āpolingā the front legs - as per the Hilda video I posted - then ābeatingā the horse 24 timesā is simply 12 strides - one āwhackā per foreleg per stride.
Again, havenāt see the video, may or may not revise my opinion if I do. Have I ever poled the front legs to elevate the passage? No. Have I seen it done? Yes. At the time, was I horrified? YES!! I hated it! Do I think that now? No. I have my own bamboo pole (for shooing hangry mares away from me and my feed buckets). Does it hurt them when they get a whack? No, but it makes a heck of a noise.
(Was my whack justified? Absolutely.)
She wishes, she doesnāt have it or she would have released it for clicks.
Nick Peronace has already tried to capitalise on it by selling copies of his book because HE KNOWS ALL THE THINGS.
Okay, thereās no way to defend that. So disappointed in her. Thereās no coming back from that.
Post deleted as SG has posted a link to the video.
Itv does not play for me but the video has also been posted on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/story.php?id=858789758&story_fbid=10162054889064759
It is not ātoucherā - rhythmic tapping.
It is random, useless brutality ā useless. Charlotte Dujardin teaches nothing there. It is aggravating, counter-pruductive, DUMB, and offensive. Gross violation of our sport.
Same here, Iām unable to play the ITV clip, but the FB link works.
I agree, training with an Olympic medalist no kid would be brave enough to speak up, if CDJ came at me with that whip sheād be wearing it before the end of the lesson.
