Charlotte withdrawing from Olympics?

Remember when Courtney King Dye was touring as a clinician after her accident? She traveled with a rider who could sub-in and ride the horse for the owner to see what CKD was asking for, but could no longer do herself.

I audited a clinic. I saw a number of owners become overwhelmed and unhappy at what they were seeing done to their horses at CKDs direction by the sub. A few of them scratched rather than ride. Others refused to relinquish their horses. It was pretty bad. But I get it why the overwhelmed but quiet said nothing. It’s hard. It’s hard in the moment to rise up and confront and make anything like noise. Conflict sucks.

Railing at people to just effing do it already isn’t particularly effective as a teaching tool. Like wailing on a horse isn’t either.

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The pressure on the riders at this level is so damn high. Gaits are all important. Expression is all important. If you reduced the emphasis on this, then would there be a need to resort to bungees, weighted boots. excessive whipping and tie downs?

I did not see the video so the only thing I can speculate on is that it must be bad enough that CDJ withdrew from a very important competition and took her punishment. Honestly, when you are a public figure, you have to be held to example standards. About the 4 year (or 2-1/2 year) delay and timing–well it sucks, but honestly I believe that the complaint would not have gotten traction before such atrocities as Parra and Helgstrand were exposed.

I very much believe that this is a course correction that is needed for our sport to survive. Still, I don’t think it will survive until we address judging and the emphasis placed on the leg flinging and overbent necks, over relaxation and harmony.

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Does anyone on this board think that Glamourdale looks like a pleasant horse to hack across a field, or does it look more Big Lick novelty action to you? How many upper level dressage horses look happy, content, and relaxed in their work to you? If you had a foal you raised and cared for, would you want them sold into this lifestyle? Or would you cringe at the heavy handed, unyielding control?
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Ok - I saw a video of a stallion show at the breeder/owner of Glamordale. He was brought into the arena and warmed up for the crowd before moving on to the ā€œtricksā€. I was expecting to not like what I was going to see. But he was LOVELY being ridden in a longer more open frame. Supple, elastic, happy, forward. I was really impressed when I expected to be rolling my eyes at the training. He did really look like a fun horse to ride (not for me - I could never ride a horse like that) and I could certainly see that he might be a blast to hack out. So unless you see the horse in training I don’t think you can always say that the training is bad when you only see the horse in competition. I mean - you can get an idea but it might not be the whole picture.

As far as CDJ - I will not pass judgement until I see the video. She might have just figured it wasn’t worth the effort to fight and it was better to admit that she had erred and let it blow over. So who knows how bad it was?

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There is a 17 year old girl that rides mostly dressage at the barn I board at. She is the absolute sweetest, most polite, soft spoken kid, and a gorgeous natural rider to boot. I’m seeing people say that rider should have just stopped the lesson, and all I can picture is the girl I know in that situation. She 100% would not have stopped either, she would have assumed that the olympic gold medalist dressage rider who is basically a celebrity and has a great reputation knows best. She would not have the experience to even really recognize when the ā€œencouragementā€ with a whip crosses the line to abuse, or how she would go about even attempting to stop it if she was uncomfortable. Saying that rider is at fault for not just ending the session really bothers me, and frankly is just wrong. And I say that as a woman, in aerospace engineering, who will happily speak up against the guys when I think they are wrong.

Also, it’s impossible to know what the whip usage really was without seeing the video. 24 times in a minute sounds awful at first, but that’s really less than every two seconds. Which, a rhythmic tap every other second in time with the gait to get more engagement is not a bad thing. A rhythmic hard whack, maybe not so much. Non-rhythmic random bursts of hard whipping, definitely not good. The whip itself makes a difference too. I experimented once to see what intensity of whacking myself with the dressage whip hurt, it was way harder than I personally would ever use on a horse before it started stinging much.

Basically…based on Charlotte’s statement and everything else, I’m going to assume it was pretty bad, but I’m not personally going to say CDJ is a cruel trainer for sure unless the evidence showing that comes out. She is still an excellent rider regardless, but her training/coaching/horsemanship is pending judgement for now.

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Beating a horse 24 times in the legs with a whip? Nope. Never did. Have you?

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Y’all must be gymnasts the way you twist and contort to defend a person the FEI saw fit to suspend. But not just that, the FEI suspended a probable medal winner. So between that and the letter ADMITTING she did something bad, it’s amazing to watch the fan club go full protect mode.

I’ve spoken to people who were in those yards. No Saint has been accused.

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Based on my own experiences I agree… I was 19 and my life got ruined because I tried to stand up against a horse abuser… I had to leave town and lost all my friends and until today this guy is well respected and connected in Germany (( he is very good friends with one of the top guys in our FN).
So unless you plan to ruin your equestrian life you better shut up….)

Nowadays I do stop things I know are abusive… but I am old and have not much to loose. In fact I did stop a BNT who suggested I should beat up my horse…. He did have a total melt down and ignores me ever since and I watched him doing similar things with a young rider who did what he suggested…. It worked ok but IMO there are nicer ways to get there….
But nobody should imagine that dressage horses have a nice relaxed life….

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Without seeing the video, if it was a case of ā€œpolingā€ the front legs - as per the Hilda video I posted - then ā€œbeatingā€ the horse 24 timesā€ is simply 12 strides - one ā€œwhackā€ per foreleg per stride.

Again, haven’t see the video, may or may not revise my opinion if I do. Have I ever poled the front legs to elevate the passage? No. Have I seen it done? Yes. At the time, was I horrified? YES!! I hated it! Do I think that now? No. I have my own bamboo pole (for shooing hangry mares away from me and my feed buckets). Does it hurt them when they get a whack? No, but it makes a heck of a noise.

(Was my whack justified? Absolutely.)

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She wishes, she doesn’t have it or she would have released it for clicks.

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Nick Peronace has already tried to capitalise on it by selling copies of his book because HE KNOWS ALL THE THINGS.


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https://www.itv.com/watch/news/olympian-charlotte-dujardin-admits-error-of-judgement-as-horse-whip-video-emerges/cn1rn9d

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Okay, there’s no way to defend that. So disappointed in her. There’s no coming back from that.

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Post deleted as SG has posted a link to the video.

The video is shared above by @SG, it’s indefensible. :frowning:

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Itv does not play for me but the video has also been posted on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/story.php?id=858789758&story_fbid=10162054889064759

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It is not ā€˜toucher’ - rhythmic tapping.

It is random, useless brutality — useless. Charlotte Dujardin teaches nothing there. It is aggravating, counter-pruductive, DUMB, and offensive. Gross violation of our sport.

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Same here, I’m unable to play the ITV clip, but the FB link works.

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I agree, training with an Olympic medalist no kid would be brave enough to speak up, if CDJ came at me with that whip she’d be wearing it before the end of the lesson.

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Well, god damn. Everything she built with Valegro - gone. His legacy, her legacy - smoked. That was…. I’m so sad. So, so sad.

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There is no way to defend her actions in that video. At one point she even hits the horse in the chest/right shoulder area. That looked like an angry strike that was of absolutely no benefit to anyone.
Sheilah

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