Charlotte withdrawing from Olympics?

[smoofox]

@FitzE

You said you wondered why someone ‘picked up her camera at that moment’.

I never said that… ?

I’m saying I don’t think she did. I think it was a much longer video of the whole lesson and the part with the abuse was clipped out and released on line.

Just saying that don’t think she only filmed this one minute. I think she clipped out this one minute from a longer video of a lesson which probably had no other moments like this or, as you say, those other moments would have been released as well.

That is exactly what I was suggesting.

No conspiracy at all so please slow your roll there. I fully suspect it was a fairly normal lesson until this happened. It is extremely common to video lessons and training sessions across sports so that the athletes and trainers can look back and see how they did and what they can work on.

The conspiracies are running amok Out There. It is sad. I was speaking in a general sense - not directed at you. I apologize that I did not make that clear.

Not many seem to be suggesting that the pitchfork mob should slow their roll, though.

@Impractical_Horsewoman

I don’t think there is a conspiracy, I just wish there was more context.

Thank you and agreed. What a weird take away from what I wrote!

See above - it was not directed at you specifically.

[Angela_Freda]

@libgrrl

I’m thinking that horse had been pushed beyond his comfort zone, and was exhibiting dangerous behavior, and CDJ didn’t know what to do. She was not dressed in riding gear (maybe pregnant at the time?) so she was not inclined to get on to help horse get out of that “stuck” place herself

If the horse is exhibiting dangerous behavior that’s the time to remove pressure, not whip it.
I could be wrong, I’m no pro, but that seems sensical to me. Cool things off, go back to what you can do, stop on a good note, tomorrow’s another day.
🤷

[Mersidoats]

@Sticky_Situation

That came across my social media feed too… there was a post from a week or two ago, pre-video, with her daughter and people were going through putting “angry face” emojis on every single somewhat good-natured comment that had been made toward her.

This is what is very wrong about this situation. What does putting an angry face on old comments do about the situation? Nothing. It simply means the poster feels better about themselves for “punishing” the evildoer and shames the person for existing because they did something bad.

What does calling her a child abuser accomplish? Nothing. It’s pure vitriol. It’s ugly. Comment on her riding, comment on the excessive whipping, comment on her too-tight nosebands, but leave her child out of it.

[clipper]

@Alterration

I do believe that she should face penalties for her actions, but I don’t believe she should be publicly stoned.

Do you equate “words” with death because that is what stoning is? If this is an attempt at hyperbole it failed with me.

Did I miss something about physical violence happening to CD?

I do not understand your continued attempt to normalize abuse.

It still happens in countries today. Please watch this video from 2015 so you can see the difference. https://www.rferl.org/a/afghanistan-taliban-stoning-woman-adultery/27341045.html

This second video is much harder to stomach and is not for the feint of heart. https://newsroom.ap.org/editorial-photos-videos/detail?itemid=542df1484e2904b04799b13adb81e0ce&mediatype=video&source=youtube

[smoofox]

@Alterration

@2bayboys

“Supporter” is a better word. I have seen a large number of people here and on SM elsewhere saying “I’m not defending what she did in the video BUT” and then going on to list lots of reasons why outright condemnation is uncalled for. Criticizing the rider, debating back and forth whether the whip is actually striking the horse, questioning the motives of the whistleblower, it just seems to me there are plenty of people who will continue to support her career due to these and other mitigating factors.

I think, and maybe this is wrongheaded, but I think I can hold all of those things in my head at the same time.

For instance -

I do believe that she should face penalties for her actions, but I don’t believe she should be publicly stoned.

I do believe that the rider wasn’t helping the situation (in terms of letting the horse go forward) but I do understand freezing in fear and/or not understanding what to do.

I do believe that a lot of the whip motions weren’t actually connecting, but I also believe that doesn’t particularly matter as the actions were unfair, and that is the problem whether there is a hit or not.

I do believe that CDJ was wrong, and should face penalties, but I also do question the motives of the leaker of the video.

I believe CDJ was excessive, but I also wonder about the context of the action.

I can hold contrary thoughts like that because I’m a complex being with a big-ol-rational brain. I don’t have to hate someone to hold them accountable, nor do I have to love everything someone does in order to appreciate some of what they do.

I suspect many here are the same. It doesn’t have to be an all good vs. all bad scenario.

Some people don’t live like that, they are considerably more black and white. That’s totally ok, but that’s probably the tension you’re seeing.

Because this excellent post needs to be repeated. Thank you, Alterration. Very well said. I am also the bolded.

[FitzE]

@smoofox

I never said that… ?

Apologies. You are correct. I was responding to Impractical_Horsewoman (one of my favourite usernames, by the way) who said she wondered why the woman picked up her camera at that moment. I said I don’t think she did, I thought it was a small clip from a longer recording.

You responded directly to me, even quoting. me, with ??? and then mentioning conspiracy so I thought you were saying I was pushing some conspiracy about a longer recording with more abuse.

I think we agree on the point that this was the only minute of the session germaine to the complaint but that more of it was surely recorded.

I just don’t see a pitchfork mob here. I guess there is one on SM but there also seem to be several people saying slow your role to that mob both on here and on SM. I think a couple have been re-posted here.

[libgrrl]

First of all, I 100% agree on that.

I got the impression that this was a one-day thing. I certainly could be wrong. It is a choice to push in a clinic environment – particularly if you don’t know the rider, or the horse. If that was the case here, it was obviously the wrong choice.

[Alterration]

@clipper

Do you equate “words” with death because that is what stoning is? If this is an attempt at hyperbole it failed with me.

Did I miss something about physical violence happening to CD?

I do not understand your continued attempt to normalize abuse.

What continued attempt to normalize abuse? If that’s what you’re reading from my posts you are NOT reading for comprehension.

On social media, she is now receiving death threats. Public stoning is somewhat hyperbole, but this kind of thing can drive people to suicide. It’s not “more civilized” just because it isn’t actual rocks.

[Jealoushe]

I mean good, she needs to sit and think about her training methods and why she used them.

[smoofox]

@Libby2563

@GraceLikeRain

I am not on social media but I haven’t seen a single bullying post in over 700 on this thread.

This forum can be harsh at times but in general it is much less so than other forms of social media, has a narrower user base, and is more moderated. I would bet a lot of money that CDJ has been the target of bullying on social media, all the way up to death threats. I’m not going to go looking because this is as close to social media as I generally can tolerate…

As I said in a previous post… the venom and lynch mob mentality is roaring Out There. And suddenly, just like that, everything CD has ever done is suspect and wrong and being covered up in some way by someone or other - hence my comments earlier about conspiracies. One of my favorite comments was that Valegro should now be tested for drugs and “saved”. What purpose does any of that serve - yes, including death threats? Or the childish example of the angry emojis being plastered on everything?

@FitzE

I just don’t see a pitchfork mob here. I guess there is one on SM but there also seem to be several people saying slow your role to that mob both on here and on SM. I think a couple have been re-posted here.

Yes - I have said it as have others… some of it has gotten out of control. But then you get called a supporter of CD’s actions and told that you did not see anything wrong with that video and WTH is wrong with you… …among other comments that have no relationship to actual reality.

[skydy]

@clipper

@KyrieNZ

Let those without sin cast the first stone. We’re human, we make mistakes. I have seen worse, but that doesn’t make it right. Hers is videoed and shared online. She has owned up to it.

Could you live with what you are saying if was CD was a man doing this to a child?

This is NOT a mistake as the video clearly shows this was a tool in her toolbox. I do not believe this is the only time she has whipped a defenseless animal due to CD demeanor.

CD has NOT owned up to it. She has said “What happened was completely out of character and does not reflect how I train my horses or coach my pupils”. Do you truly believe this was “out of character” or that she has not “coach”(ed) other pupils this way?

First of all, this was not a man whipping a child, so your question is bizarre.

Secondly, you took part of her statement out of context to show that in your opinion CDJ has “not owned up to it”.

What she actually wrote was:

“What happened was completely out of character and does not reflect how I train my horses or coach my pupils, however there is no excuse. I am deeply ashamed and should have set a better example in that moment.”

“I am sincerely sorry for my actions and devastated that I have let everyone down, including Team GB, fans and sponsors.”

“I will cooperate fully with the FEI, British Equestrian Federation and British Dressage during their investigations, and will not be commenting further until the process is complete”.

I don’t know what more you expect. Her statement reads like a mea culpa to me.

[SpicyPRE]

I am curious about who should abuse/unacceptable acts be reported to? At a show we have the TD. In the case of this video, whom should the reporter have contacted? I do believe the reporter took the path s/he did to get maximum exposure. However, would any other path have had any impact? What about things that happen at your home barn or when riding in a clinic?

[Mersidoats]

Exactly. Imagine people coming up to you and saying to your face “you’re awful.” “I hate you.” “You are a disgrace to humanity.” “You’d be better off dead.”

Over and over again.

Because you did something bad, admitted guilt and are already getting the consequences of your actions. But the people keep walking up to you and verbally p***ing all over you.

That is what is happening to her on social media. And it’s wrong. She is already facing real consequences and her career is on hold. She doesn’t have a backup plan probably. It’s not happening here, but it is on all of her social media platforms. Her team should shut down comments until the mob stops.

Rarely will someone actually say these things out loud to someone’s face because it comes with social risk. Online…there is no risk. You can say whatever you want. And that is what we are seeing unfold now.

[Mondo]

@MNEventer

Telling people not to feel how they feel is generally not a successful strategy.

He’s not telling anyone how to feel. He’s saying stop tarring and feathering this one person when there is SO MUCH more (and worse) horse abuse happening every single day and nobody says shite about it. Am I disappointed in her? You bet. Did this knock her off the pedestal I put her on? Absolutely. Do I suddenly hate her and vilify her? Absolutely not. Her career has been completely destroyed, right or wrong is up to each of us as individuals. I personally think it’s wrong. I think it’s overkill and grossly misplaced, YMMV. I sent her a PM on Facebook wishing her well. She has been harmed much more substantially by the social media firestorm than either Parra or Helgstrand. That’s not right and it sucks.

[Alterration]

@SpicyPRE

I am curious about who should abuse/unacceptable acts be reported to? At a show we have the TD. In the case of this video, whom should the reporter have contacted? I do believe the reporter took the path s/he did to get maximum exposure. However, would any other path have had any impact? What about things that happen at your home barn or when riding in a clinic?

This is a curious question. Does the FEI have a reporting system? Surely they do. I think I tried to look at that up during the Helgstrand/Parra incidents but I cannot remember for the life of me what the end result was and whether I found some sort of form or not.

[Alterration]

@Mersidoats

Exactly. Imagine people coming up to you and saying to your face “you’re awful.” “I hate you.” “You are a disgrace to humanity.” “You’d be better off dead.”

Over and over again.

Because you did something bad, admitted guilt and are already getting the consequences of your actions. But the people keep walking up to you and verbally p***ing all over you.

Yup.

I was the victim of bullying in Elementary and High School. I do believe that words can commit violence and I will never inflict that on someone else if I can avoid it.

Again, I don’t think anyone here is doing that, we’re a pretty balanced and thoughtful group for the most part, but I am extremely careful about inflaming the pitchfork-wielding mob.

A few really good books if you are interested in the connection between words and actions are Leadership and Self Deception and the Anatomy of Peace, both by the Arbinger Institute. Highly recommended and very confronting reading (in a positive way).

[jvanrens]

@Alterration

On social media, she is now receiving death threats. Public stoning is somewhat hyperbole, but this kind of thing can drive people to suicide. It’s not “more civilized” just because it isn’t actual rocks.

Doesn’t surprise me sadly. On the H&H forum someone posted they had obscenities screamed at them for abusing their horse while going for a quiet hack.

[FitzE]

@Mondo

She has been harmed much more substantially by the social media firestorm than either Parra or Helgstrand. That’s not right and it sucks.

This really bothers me. It’s not right.

[Cowgirl]

Two of my neices worked as zoologists. My older neice (who is now a shelter veterinarian) was a primate keeper. She trained the larger primates to put their arms through a hole in the wall to have their blood drawn. They did this with clicker training and positive reinforcement. She would always ask us for pizza boxes, which they used for enrichment. They would put some treats inside and tape them up and throw them in the enclosure for toys. I saved my Amazon boxes and did this for my horses when they have to stay in their runs int he winter due to snow or ice. They love it. I started buying large dog toys for my horses. They like the rope toys.

[jvanrens]

@Alterration

@SpicyPRE

I am curious about who should abuse/unacceptable acts be reported to? At a show we have the TD. In the case of this video, whom should the reporter have contacted? I do believe the reporter took the path s/he did to get maximum exposure. However, would any other path have had any impact? What about things that happen at your home barn or when riding in a clinic?

This is a curious question. Does the FEI have a reporting system? Surely they do. I think I tried to look at that up during the Helgstrand/Parra incidents but I cannot remember for the life of me what the end result was and whether I found some sort of form or not.

Obviously there is a way. The 19 year olds lawyer got it to the FEI and the British governing body.