Charlotte withdrawing from Olympics?

[NJRider]

The news feeds are full of very bad articles like this.

We Asked an Expert How Many Times It's OK to Whip a Horse in the Space of One...

[sascha]

@Angela_Freda

I put his words in italics to avoid confusion.

Didn’t work. Without commentary, it didn’t read as anything but something you were using to put your opinion forward.

[Angela_Freda]

@sascha

Didn’t work. Without commentary, it didn’t read as anything but something you were using to put your opinion forward.

I started the post with this👇

@Angela_Freda

Thoughts on this… Mine in another post below

It, the above, was meant to indicate I would make another post to share my own thoughts.

But I’m sorry it confused you, I’ll go back and edit it for better clarity.
.

[sascha]

Super clear now

And I just saw that post on a trainer friend’s FB and was a bit sickened. Then I went to the comments and found out some things I wish I hadn’t

Perhaps the whole effing dressage training world completely sucks except for a random few mostly dead folks.

[Blugal]

Kind of weird because Kelly Plitz is Waylon Roberts’ mother - but Waylon didn’t declare for these Games. So her comment is more of a general nature than on behalf of a non-selected athlete.

And because someone else asked me, I looked up the Canadian Eventing selectors for Paris:

1. Bruce Mandeville, Chair (Canadian lawyer originally from BC, has been out East for decades, competed on Canadian team from WEG 1994 through eventing at Sydney 2000 and Athens 2004)

2. Bruce Haskell (New Zealander living in the UK, president of the Eventing Riders Association)

3. Bonnie Mosser (US 5* eventer)

I have no idea if any of these people has any perceived or real conflicts of interest. With the relatively new High Performance Advisory Group, and a more gelled vision for the upper level riders in Canada, I’d imagine that the athletes would have requested a change of selectors if there were conflicts. Unless someone has inside intel, that’s probably all we’ll know.

[Knights_Mom]

Horses need to no longer be part of the Olympics. Humans cannot be trusted.

All this discussion really irks me. When we need to ASK if beating a horse with a whip 24 times is abusive, it’s game over. Analyzing the pain infliction to each of the 24 hits is insane.

How the hell is don’t abuse horses such an impossibly tall standard that it warrants all this discussion?

Just don’t beat horses. Don’t hurt horses. Enough is enough.

[Angela_Freda]

I had the same experience
It was shared by people I had worked for.
Which made me wonder how they’d react if it were me…

[sascha]

@Angela_Freda

I had the same experience
It was shared by people I had worked for.
Which made me wonder how they’d react if it were me…

I didn’t think I could get more sad about this situation, but here we are. I’m sorry you’re having the same experience.

[Bicoastal]

@fivestrideline

If someone does things like what’s shown in the video in a lesson to someone else’s horse - with such detachment - what the heck is going on when no one is watching?

That’s the first thing that’s going to happen across all disciplines, top to bottom: an absolute ban on recording. I can’t see any professional allowing it after the publicity of this video.

I’m absolutely not saying that’s the solution. I’m saying it will be a consequence.

CDJ double-handed struck when closest to the camera. The view indicates the phone was visible and she knew/could see she was being filmed.

When it’s all behind closed doors…?

[FitzE]

What if all - and I mean all - clients refuse to work with trainers who ban recording. All the ammies, all the owners with deep pockets, all the professionals looking to keep their reps clean.

Not that they will record everything, just that they have the option. Walk if the option is taken off the table preemptively.

I learn something every time a training session is recorded. Maybe if you discount your training/lesson fees by at least 50%, since I lose all that follow-on value from not recording, maybe we can talk.

But how about if all clients insist on recording (and it’s not a gotcha thing - people record everything all the time these days in sports for playback) or they’ll find someone else?

[Knights_Mom]

I was at a weekend clinic and my trainer rode my horse while I’m injured. Clinician is an international GP rider I’ve ridden with several times. My trainers mom videod 2 complete sessions with my phone. I uploaded them to my YouTube channel. Gave trainer links to access.

Zero issue as we respect eachother. Clinician also did not care because he trains very ethically and he knows it.

They were wonderful!

[george]

I’m really baffled by the pushes by horse people to not include horses in the Olympics. What will that accomplish? If it’s not an Olympic sport, that will do nothing to curb abuse. World Championships and Young Horse Championships will just take the place of Olympics in prestige but that will not stop the abuse. Im in no way advocating for the continuation of the current blind eye towards abuse but I’m genuinely curious about what reasons people have to ban horse sports from the Olympics. In my mind this is an FEI problem, not an IOC problem.

[173north]

@Bicoastal

That’s the first thing that’s going to happen across all disciplines, top to bottom: an absolute ban on recording. I can’t see any professional allowing it after the publicity of this video.

@FitzE

What if all - and I mean all - clients refuse to work with trainers who ban recording. All the ammies, all the owners with deep pockets, all the professionals looking to keep their reps clean.

I actually think very few barns are going to do this. Banning recording is a big red flag and pros know this - it’s announcing that you have something to hide and/or you’re overly paranoid. If you’re confident that you have nothing to hide, and you’re training horses correctly and humanely, there’s no reason to ban videos.

[pluvinel]

@george

I’m really baffled by the pushes by horse people to not include horses in the Olympics. What will that accomplish?

It will eliminate the pressure to prepare horses to compete “in the Olympics.”

[J-Lu]

What’s the issue with Werth? Why is her horse in distress? Truly curious.

[FitzE]

@173north

Banning recording is a big red flag and pros know this - it’s announcing that you have something to hide and/or you’re overly paranoid. If you’re confident that you have nothing to hide, and you’re training horses correctly and humanely, there’s no reason to ban videos.

Agreed and I really hope that’s how it plays out: good, honest, nonabusive trainers will welcome recording and get more clients than the ones that ban it.

[DMK]

@george

If it’s not an Olympic sport, that will do nothing to curb abuse.

That’s simply not true. SLO isn’t an Olympic issue, this is front and center in every horse sport in Europe. Yes, the Olympics are subject to a wider audience, but that does not mean this has not pervaded every event in Europe. I compete in a sport that is much more popular in Europe, so our clinicians and coaches in the various USEF programs are all from Europe and most of our ground jury/officials fly over for our competitions. Between them and our FEI vets, we hear about it endlessly.

The US is behind in public awareness, and we’re reminded of that as well, but we are not exempt or immune from it. Keeping or removing equine sports from the Olympics will not change one thing in the long run. We either get our act together and accept that it’s a new world out there or we will pay the consequences.

[skydy]

No distress? Enlarge the photo if you really can’t see it.

[J-Lu]

We’ll agree to disagree here. My OWN horse will open his mouth like this sometimes when he is disagreeing with working sometimes when he feels like he shouldn’t be working. Neither rein looks overly tight in the above picture and that looks like the “worst” photo that the photographer got. It’s a moment in time. Sometimes, horses have their own opinions. I watched Werth warm-up and ride and there was nothing cruel about her riding. Horses have personalities, too. The above horse is not behind the vertical and the reins aren’t cranked. It looks like someone was posting the worse possible photo.

I’d want to see the video or more photos before criticizing Werth.

[skydy]

@J-Lu

We’ll agree to disagree here. My OWN horse will open his mouth like this sometimes when he is disagreeing with working sometimes when he feels like he shouldn’t be working. Neither rein looks overly tight in the above picture and that looks like the “worst” photo that the photographer got. It’s a moment in time. Sometimes, horses have their own opinions. I watched Werth warm-up and ride and there was nothing cruel about her riding. Horses have personalities, too. The above horse is not behind the vertical and the reins aren’t cranked. It looks like someone was posting the worse possible photo.

I’d want to see the video or more photos before criticizing Werth.

Interesting. When your horse does this is his tongue pulled up and blue? It’s a “moment in time” when the circulation is impaired.