Charlotte withdrawing from Olympics?

[Fiesta01]

@Jealoushe

Based on his expression and the tears streaming from his eyes… sweaty face. Tell tale sign.

Someone has probably mentioned this, but I thought it was raining pretty constantly during the ceremony?

[shall]

@hey101

I guess I have boiled my opinion down to -yeah she f*cked up. But so have we all in our horse journey. Do I think she should’ve dropped out out of the Olympics? No.

I agree with this. The video is very dark and filled with inane laughter. Hard to say that every whip sound was a hit - those sounded like a crack. C’s long arm (slowly) swinging from behind looked more intentional. Why did the videographer (the laugher) wait until this public moment? We can’t know. I hate the very public and strong consequences. As Carl said, he had never seen such and he would know.

[FitzE]

@shall

As Carl said, he had never seen such and he would know.

But why would he tell if he had? It would reflect back on him either b/c he taught her those methods or b/c he saw them and didn’t stop/report her. So, no, I don’t think his saying he never saw it is dispositive of it having never happened.

I’m curious why you and hey101 think she should not have withdrawn. Do you not think there are better, more deserving riders to represent their nation than what we saw in the video? Do you not acknowledge (or do you simply not care) that stuff like this (and Helgstrand and Parras) does substantial damage to the sport?

Also, maybe you have only watched on a phone or in poor conditions, but there is nothing dark or unclear about the video. The laughing is rather low key and every crack can be heard distinctly. Maybe we saw different videos?

[shall]

@FitzE

think she should not have withdrawn.

I strongly dislike the timing of the video reveal. C had to withdraw and she did. Are you so sure Carl’s statement is CYA? Does Charlotte need to exit the stage now for these aspiring riders?

[FitzE]

I don’t understand your reference to ‘these aspiring riders’ - can you clarify?

There are two issues: Charlotte’s behaviour and the timing of the video.

The latter has no reflection on the former. It is or it isn’t abuse, whether it was live streamed or released later. Period. There is no nexus between the two issues with respect to the behaviour.

As for the timing, you can disagree with it, I suppose, but what’s the point. If you focus on timing you are saying that you feel the timing resulted in the withdrawal and the withdrawal was wrong. With that, I disagree.

The timing brought enormous attention to the issue. She absolutely had to withdraw and it was right that she did. But the timing in NO WAY mitigates what she herself chose to do. That’s all on her and it stands alone to be judged abuse or not. The timing has nothing to do with the behaviour.

I agree with the person above who said the timing was good as, if it had come out earlier, she’d have been able to apologise (or not) and it would have blown over. Who among us is still actively discussing Helgstrand and Parra? Attention would have moved on and she’d be at the Olympics despite her behaviour.

If it was the Aussie lady who released it, agreed, she seems AT LEAST as problematic. But, however abuse is exposed, thank goodness it’s getting exposed.

[Knights_Mom]

I also must laugh at the premise Charlotte withdrew herself. There is zero doubt she would have been suspended anyway.

It’s like quitting before you get the official memo that youve been fired (that you know has already been written). Just a P.R. mea culpa tactic to hopefully (in their eyes) diminish backlash.

[shall]

@FitzE

Do you not think there are better, more deserving riders to represent their nation than what we saw in the video?

Aspiring encapsulates the above.

[FitzE]

But none of her teammates were involved in recording or releasing the video so I still don’t understand what/who you mean by aspiring riders who were connected in any way to this incident.

[FitzE]

@shall

Are you so sure Carl’s statement is CYA?

I don’t think it’s CYA at all. I think it is the typical response to these things from certain people: I never saw it/they never did it to me (in the case of abuse) so…

[FitzE]

@FitzE

What a disgusting position to take: I got good horses (meaning horses that will do certain stuff) from him and won with them so who gives a how they were produced? Not me!

Replying to myself: I see she got her gold medal so roll on buying from known/documented abusers!!!

[Knights_Mom]

Carl has to say he never saw that behavior because the assumption is she learned it from him.

[CHT]

I hope that Charlotte turns this around and vocalizes that modern dressage and the expectations of the horses and riders to create those extravagant movements puts unfair pressures on both the horses and trainers/riders, and leads to methods that aren’t in keeping with the ideals she wanted to hold when she was an aspiring rider.

I hope she can turn this around and lead the way to making the changes that competitive dressage needs to survive.

[Knights_Mom]

If it were true and sincere that would be her best bet.

If not sincere it would be very bad for her to do so.

[Scaramouch]

@DownYonder

What a stupid reply (not you, the attorney). GB’s alternate is nowhere near the same caliber of rider that CD is. GB had a chance of medaling with CD on the team - maybe even topping the podium. Now their chances of medaling are much less and anyone that knows anything about dressage understands that. I am in no way condoning what CD did though, and I hope I will have to eat my hat if GB manages to medal in Paris without her.

I think it’s now safe to say this post did not age well and that “nowhere near the same caliber” was probably not a fair assessment to begin with. Becky and Bomb getting the opportunity to step up the way they have has been a delightful silver lining to this mess.

[hey101]

I saw this comment earlier today and before I responded I thought for awhile why I feel like I do and I think a lot of the response from the horse world is a lot of crocodile tears. A lot of hand wringing and OMG how horrible when FAR worse happens every day.

Helgestrand and Werth have been “open secrets” for years and nauseatingly Werth is up there getting her golds when it takes two seconds to google a pic of her horses with blue tongues.

The whole jumper world knew about Kocher and his spurs and in a strikingly similar fashion, bad blood between him and an owner who I’d bet everything I own, well knew about them, “turned him in” out of the “goodness of her heart”- after their business relationship fell apart. Why isn’t she also banned?

Meredith Little and her grooms with the black towels waiting at the finish line to wipe the blood off the mouths. The eventing community raised this issue OVER AND OVER again and NOTHING was done. (It’s rather amazing how many times her horse “bit its tongue “ out on XC )

Baffert with his medicinal cocktails
Lunging hunters at 3am for 3 hours
The bullshit of the horse being injected with the wrong cocktail at th WC finals and collapsing and dying
The outcry over Mark Todd who by my eyes just swatted the horse on the butt a little bit. My god I disciplined my toddlers more firmly when they threw a temptrum in public- and they are now quite wonderful amazing kids who I regularly get compliments on their manners.

I’ve just in the last few weeks with all this nonsense become educated on things like “stretchies” to encourage the crazy exaggerated movements we know see in “pure” dressage. You can’t have it both ways people. If judges reward that stuff then business people will train for that (and I say business people because the pure horsemen will never succeed once a look or style becomes more popular than correct training)

For years “eventing dressage” has been looked down upon by the “pure” dressage snobs. Go watch Michael Jung and Laura Collets test at this Olympics. Pure magic.

I think CD made a poor decision on a single day. By all accounts her horses go well for her year after year. If she was truly abusive the others would have come out of the woodwork, and so far I’vee seen nothing like that.

[Annie_Burton]

@hey101

I’ve just in the last few weeks with all this nonsense become educated on things like “stretchies” to encourage the crazy exaggerated movements

This.

People get used to a ‘look’… Judges do, too. It will take time to let, say, Jagerbomb’s realistic trot be fully appreciated again. And at age 17, Dalera, is pointing the way with her scopey, classical gaits and is being duly recognized for it.

[Angela_Freda]

@hey101

Helgestrand and Werth have been “open secrets” for years and nauseatingly Werth is up there getting her golds when it takes two seconds to google a pic of her horses with blue tongues.

The whole jumper world knew about Kocher and his spurs and in a strikingly similar fashion, bad blood between him and an owner who I’d bet everything I own, well knew about them, “turned him in” out of the “goodness of her heart”- after their business relationship fell apart. Why isn’t she also banned?

Meredith Little and her grooms with the black towels waiting at the finish line to wipe the blood off the mouths. The eventing community raised this issue OVER AND OVER again and NOTHING was done. (It’s rather amazing how many times her horse “bit its tongue “ out on XC )

Baffert with his medicinal cocktails
Lunging hunters at 3am for 3 hours
The bullshit of the horse being injected with the wrong cocktail at th WC finals and collapsing and dying
The outcry over Mark Todd who by my eyes just swatted the horse on the butt a little bit. My god I disciplined my toddlers more firmly when they threw a temptrum in public- and they are now quite wonderful amazing kids who I regularly get compliments on their manners.

I’ve just in the last few weeks with all this nonsense become educated on things like “stretchies” to encourage the crazy exaggerated movements we know see in “pure” dressage. You can’t have it both ways people. If judges reward that stuff then business people will train for that (and I say business people because the pure horsemen will never succeed once a look or style becomes more popular than correct training)

For years “eventing dressage” has been looked down upon by the “pure” dressage snobs. Go watch Michael Jung and Laura Collets test at this Olympics. Pure magic.

I think CD made a poor decision on a single day. By all accounts her horses go well for her year after year. If she was truly abusive the others would have come out of the woodwork, and so far I’vee seen nothing like that

All of this points to a reason to sit on this video until the moment they did.
We have known there was a problem for a while and each week it fades away until the next one which then fades away after a while.
If we don’t clean up our own house, someone’s going to clean it for us. Pretending it doesn’t need cleaning because people have short attention span is hopefully not going to work.

I don’t care if CD did this just once.
This once was bad enough.
.

[DownYonder]

@Scaramouch

I think it’s now safe to say this post did not age well and that “nowhere near the same caliber” was probably not a fair assessment to begin with. Becky and Bomb getting the opportunity to step up the way they have has been a delightful silver lining to this mess.

Yes, and I will now have to happily eat my hat! ! still believe that GB would have been higher on the podium with CDJ, but Becky did indeed do a wonderful job!

[Knights_Mom]

@hey101

I saw this comment earlier today and before I responded I thought for awhile why I feel like I do and I think a lot of the response from the horse world is a lot of crocodile tears. A lot of hand wringing and OMG how horrible when FAR worse happens every day.

Helgestrand and Werth have been “open secrets” for years and nauseatingly Werth is up there getting her golds when it takes two seconds to google a pic of her horses with blue tongues.

The whole jumper world knew about Kocher and his spurs and in a strikingly similar fashion, bad blood between him and an owner who I’d bet everything I own, well knew about them, “turned him in” out of the “goodness of her heart”- after their business relationship fell apart. Why isn’t she also banned?

Meredith Little and her grooms with the black towels waiting at the finish line to wipe the blood off the mouths. The eventing community raised this issue OVER AND OVER again and NOTHING was done. (It’s rather amazing how many times her horse “bit its tongue “ out on XC )

Baffert with his medicinal cocktails
Lunging hunters at 3am for 3 hours
The bullshit of the horse being injected with the wrong cocktail at th WC finals and collapsing and dying
The outcry over Mark Todd who by my eyes just swatted the horse on the butt a little bit. My god I disciplined my toddlers more firmly when they threw a temptrum in public- and they are now quite wonderful amazing kids who I regularly get compliments on their manners.

I’ve just in the last few weeks with all this nonsense become educated on things like “stretchies” to encourage the crazy exaggerated movements we know see in “pure” dressage. You can’t have it both ways people. If judges reward that stuff then business people will train for that (and I say business people because the pure horsemen will never succeed once a look or style becomes more popular than correct training)

For years “eventing dressage” has been looked down upon by the “pure” dressage snobs. Go watch Michael Jung and Laura Collets test at this Olympics. Pure magic.

I think CD made a poor decision on a single day. By all accounts her horses go well for her year after year. If she was truly abusive the others would have come out of the woodwork, and so far I’vee seen nothing like that.

I have heard reports being rough for years. Coming from her yard. People talk.

[Ponyplusaninch]

I have had a range of thoughts about this. I think what really gets my goat is that there are more systematic abusers in the system who are still going out there, winning, and are simultaneously tsk-tsk-ing CDJ.

To be clear, I was incredibly saddened by that video and 100% agree she should have withdrawn and deserves whatever the FEI throws at her as well as her sponsors disappearing. Never meet your heroes and all that.

But the hypocrisy of some of the other “greats” in the sport just makes me hopping mad. Life isn’t fair and all that but it really, really grates me. @hey101called out some of the obvious ones we all have awareness of. And even in HJ land I’ve seen some people going “oh that’s so horrible” in regards to the CDJ video when I have seen how they prep their horses for shows, and IMO they’re throwing stones from glass houses. It’s so, so frustrating.

What I really want is for there to be a bigger sweep, a bigger clean up when it comes to horse welfare across ALL sports, but we don’t seem to have found an incident that will inspire all the national governing bodies to do that. And this is where my overwhelming feeling of sadness comes from. I can only control the welfare of my horse, and if all the regular public hears about are these bad actors, why should they believe me when I say I take excellent care of my horse?