I have heard reports being rough for years. Coming from her yard. People talk.
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I have had a range of thoughts about this. I think what really gets my goat is that there are more systematic abusers in the system who are still going out there, winning, and are simultaneously tsk-tsk-ing CDJ.
To be clear, I was incredibly saddened by that video and 100% agree she should have withdrawn and deserves whatever the FEI throws at her as well as her sponsors disappearing. Never meet your heroes and all that.
But the hypocrisy of some of the other âgreatsâ in the sport just makes me hopping mad. Life isnât fair and all that but it really, really grates me. @hey101called out some of the obvious ones we all have awareness of. And even in HJ land Iâve seen some people going âoh thatâs so horribleâ in regards to the CDJ video when I have seen how they prep their horses for shows, and IMO theyâre throwing stones from glass houses. Itâs so, so frustrating.
What I really want is for there to be a bigger sweep, a bigger clean up when it comes to horse welfare across ALL sports, but we donât seem to have found an incident that will inspire all the national governing bodies to do that. And this is where my overwhelming feeling of sadness comes from. I can only control the welfare of my horse, and if all the regular public hears about are these bad actors, why should they believe me when I say I take excellent care of my horse?
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Iâm not holding my breath for there to be a âbig sweepâ regarding horse welfare across all sports. It would take an act of Congress to get something implemented that impacted all sports, but sadly animal welfare in general is far down the list of concerns for most Americans.
USEF is best positioned at the moment to do something regarding sports that fall under its umbrella, but we have seen that TPTB at USEF really only pay lip service to the issue of horse welfare. How long has it turned a blind eye to soring, to cutting/gingering of tails, to tie-downs (or tie-ups), to use of running Wâs and other contraptions designed to make a horse trip unless it altered its gait mechanics, to instances of abuse/harsh methods used by riders at shows, etc.? Yeah, it can ban them at its competitions but as we have seen, that does nothing to prevent folks from using those methods when not on USEF-sanctioned premises. And donât forget that AQHA doesnât fall under USEFâs umbrella - and the reason reining had a very short stint as a USEF discipline is because those folks decided they didnât want to subject themselves to USEF regulations over its sport (particularly in the area of dictating at what age horses could compete, but there were also concerns in reining ranks about what else USEF might dictate).
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Thanks for that reply. I think I understand your frustration that so many abusers are not caught and I share that. Iâm really sick knowing that Werth has her gold medal while simultaneously confirming that she doesnât care how the horse is trained as long as it produces for her. Makes that medal absolutely meaningless to me.
I can also see that you and I have very different approaches to discipline. I donât hit anyone or anything, most certainly not a toddler. My children are also amazing and I regularly get compliments on their manners, but theyâve never been struck a single time. Same for me with animals. My most recent instructor feels the same way - she does not allow people to carry crops or wear spurs on her horses. Now, this was not a performance-oriented situation, but the point is: there are people who train without hitting and even people who find hitting to be absolutely forbidden. A good re-framing I heard is this: when a parent is yelling/hitting a child (and we can say when a trainer/coach is yelling/hitting), the parent is the one having the tantrum. They are not in control, they are not the adult in the situation, they are teaching nothing but that the person with more power gets to act out. The Aussie woman was deffo having a tantrum, yelling at her student, belittling her, commanding her to whip her horse. CD wasnât even having a tantrum, she was calm and casual, which in a way is almost worse.
I really did enjoy the eventing dressage. Some of the rides were so lovey and none of the rides were concerning in the rollkur way or anxious, scared horses.
I disagree that CD made a poor choice on a single day. You donât break THAT drastically from your everyday methodology, esp in front of clients, esp in such a calm, methodical way, if itâs your first time doing something like that. CD was comfortable, calm, and casual while she was whipping away at that horse, even using two hands.
No way in any universe was that her first time at that particular rodeo.
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Thank you hey, for saying what Iâve been thinking all along but not stated nearly as well.
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From whom have you heard these âreports?â Barn gossip will never go away. Iâve had disgruntled former clients accuse me of all sorts of false BS. When I say, whereâs your proof? They just go away.
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I truly do not believe that her horses would go so well for her in international competition if she were beating them with a whip on the regular. You can ride the flashy gaits all you want, but the tension will never go away if you beat a horse into submission. I do think it was an aberration. Maybe not the first and possibly not the last, but I donât think thatâs how she trains her horses. When you get on the big stage, the wheels will eventually fall off. Thatâs why itâs so frustrating that IW keeps winning with her blue-tongued horses that are clearly tense and miserable. If we want to clean up our sport, we need the judges to wake the f up.
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With respect to hitting and using a whip. Full disclosure - I use a whip on my young horse - because he hears the TAP - no more than a bump - from the whip far easier than he does my leg. He came from a situation where leg and bit aids where loud and confusing and he shut down and was severely behind the leg. But he could âhearâ the whip and learned that that meant forward - now he is really forward and is hearing the leg aids much better. The seat had a similar effect on him - he could âhearâ that and would respond - so between my seat and my whip - gently tapping him - he has turned the corner and is understanding. Whips donât need to be harsh - they can be very simple, soft tools - just like a bit. Whip does not equal abuse but it can.
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IIRC, on the other side the US Endurance Riders (AERC?) cut ties with the FEI because the FEI would not do anything about the horse abuse at FEI endurance rides in the Middle East. There are some groups focusing on horse welfare, unfortunately too many are avoiding dealing with it.
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Yes, good point. FEI/USET will do something only when not doing something poses a significant financial risk to the organization.
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Refresh my memory - which horse was she riding in that blue-tongue photo?
I just rewatched her winning ride. Her core is like a steel beam. Impeccable balance but so so rigid. Iâd hate to be her body worker. Contrast with someone like Lottie Fry for softer, less fascist style.
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I will not disclose the identity of this person. They came to me distraught, I believe them. Iâve also heard from others in that country. There are actually individuals averse to the horsey hierarchy there. Any opposition is met with verbal aggression which I have personally witnessed and experienced.
Thugs. Bullies.
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I was afraid of being slaughtered here for my perspective, but this post gave me courage. I had a horse, the love of my life. He was dangerous. On the ground and under saddle. He was talented and beautiful and I loved him. My long time coach walked out on us. She didnât know what to do anymore. He could back up over and around anything. Had a huge gift of self preservation as to not hurt himself, but he could stop mid canter and back through people, people on lawn chairs, doorways, trees, over the dressage ring fence,âŠ
In the stall he was aggressive towards people who thought they could overpower him and dangerous with the vet. He was never abused to cause this behaviour. It was just him. He was the smartest cleverest horse ever, and I loved him and in spite of the awfuls, I had a tremendous amount of fun with him. When he was good, he was very good. And SO brave.
I took him to train with a famous Olympian , who refused to get hurt by getting on him. He helped me a lot with him. And he used a whip. Every time my horse stopped dead and started going backwards, he hit him with the whip. HARD. It took only a few good cracks and the behaviour stopped. The trainer always carried the whip, usually just letting trail, but my clever horse learned very quickly that whip could come alive.
The point in sharing this is, if anyone had walked into the ring during any of those rides, would have been very shocked at what they saw, because it would have been out of context.
Maybe there was more going on then the whip portion of the video. I donât think perhaps we know the full story? HopefullyâŠ.
And before anyone jumps all over me, I knew this horse from the time he was started as a 3/year old. He had the benifit of all health checks, except acupuncture because he tried to kill the vet at the first needle going in.
. He lived a long life wth me and we humanely put him to sleep with advanced EPM. He was never tested for epm and perhaps that was the issue.
The point is, yes she was using her whip successively, but why? M
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To get him to lift his feet higher.
Iâm sorry you had such a shitty experience with your horse and hope at this point you realize there are other choices and many health avenues to explore should this type of horse present itself again. Many moons ago I went through similar and realised that no matter how well it worked I couldnât continue it on my own and was forced to find a different way.
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I donât consider a tap with my whip as a tantrum. Iâm short, horse is tall, a tap with my crop is much clearer than my leg at times. Especially when I tap his shoulder as a reminder when he leans and bulges his shoulder.
A whip and spurs are a tool that when used with empathy result in clearer communication.
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So, I understand why pn was hesitant to post her story. None of us were there; none of us know how the horse actually was. Perhaps there was a âkinderâ way to get through to the horse; but maybe, just maybe, the olympian had the horse right - maybe the horse was just deciding ânot toâ and found a really effective way to get out of work. And the olympianâs approach was the safest, fastest way to save a horse and/or rider from a tragic outcome.
I rarely use harsh responses to my horses, but when they become dangerous, I most definitely tell them in no uncertain terms that that behavior is not allowed. Case in point - my own homebred decided he no longer needed to hold his back feet for the farrier. He was about 8 yrs at the time and had been respectfully trimmed his entire life. Not lame, not bad hocks, but he just didnât want to any more. He was a big horse and figured out the hoof jerk w/ impeccable timing. I would relatively gently tell him to knock it off. No change. Farrier started talking drugs. I thought no way in H*** was my horse needing drugs. The next time he jerked his foot, I did a come to jesus moment for about 15 seconds where he got in massive trouble. Little olâ me is never going to deliver as much physical punishment no matter how hard I try than an actual kick or bite from another horse. He looked at me w/ mild surprise and said âhuh, I guess i"d better stand here.â Dang if he didnât straighten up his act. He has been absolutely fine since.
Perhaps PNs horse had a similar âwell dang, that doesnât work any more and it stings just a bit, I guess Iâd better knock it offâ. Perhaps the olympian had the right response. We donât know. It sounds like it had a happy ending rather than a tragic one.
*just to be clear, I didnât think the CD was appropriate training or use of the whip. It appeared dangerous and abusive but I do understand PNs point.
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I feel like the people who are most fundamentalist about never ever âhittingâ a horse donât actually manage them personally. You can horse whisper all you want but the minute you have 3 bossy piggy horses trying to all bum rush the gate at the same time, or cornering you in the pasture and thrashing each other because they think you have treats, you have the preserve your personal space and assert yourself.
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FWIW, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with CTJs for dangerous or potentially dangerous behaviour. I will not have a horse bite, kick, strike, rear, head swing, or any other potentially harmful behaviour and Iâll mete out memorable corrections quickly and fairly.
I read the previous posterâs accounting of their story differently than you did, clearly.
Agree that we read it differently - probably because the thought of a horse backing through and over stuff terrifies me and I consider it highly dangerous behavior. The story read to me as the the olympianâs method was the last hail mary attempt to make the horse safely rideable.
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