Just to throw a monkeywrench in the “dressage is better than saddleseat / saddleseat is better than dressage” discussion -
I am old but I well remember when the big names in dressage - riders, trainers, judges, etc. - believed that top dressage horses were expected to be “brilliant,” and they defined “brilliance” as being “on the edge of an explosion.” THEIR WORDS. 
Just to be clear - I don’t think saddleseat is better than dressage…didn’t want anyone to get that impression. Good lord no. I think they are two different disciplines with two different backgrounds and aims. One came out of an academic riding pursuit, starting with training for war, then being refined as an art in the salons in europe, and another came out of an american background, wanting to show off their fine high stepping horses in the park (hence the park horse).
Some of the finest saddleseat trainers (Tom Bass anyone) were revered for their high school movements. But that was a very long time ago.
Woof. Reining wouldn’t make the list of “cool training” for me because I’ve seen how it’s produced and that’s a hard no. Cool looking end product, sure. But the road to get there is awfully rough.
“Don’t touch their mouths”. You’ve clearly not seen a warm up ring.
Agreed. Some reining training is hard to stomach. But just like everything else - not all trainers. I’ve seen some good ones too.
Reining has a lot of rougher ones, probably because it’s been a very macho male dominated sport. Reined cowhorse too. I’ve seen some particularly rough methods used with those youngsters.
I have a horse who flunked out of reining training in my barn (I take on a lot of flunkies and broken horses). He was used up by 6, front legs were just trashed. Pretty boy though. Really nice mane. Reiners do have a corner on that I think - the mane I mean - I keep trying to learn those skills and I just don’t have it 100%. And he had a perfect handle on him. Really nice lateral work. Very shut down mentally, but when he threw his cookies out of the cot they were thrown. I always attributed that to his breeding, but the training might have contributed. Who knows.
Either way - there are good and bad trainers in EVERY discipline. People who chase money, who don’t put the good of the horse first. There are good and bad things to learn from every discipline.
Bang, jerk, bang that spade bit lol
I feel like there’s not a great way to get the spin as fast as it is without really getting on a horse’s case at least a few times. They just won’t do something that unnatural at that speed without being “motivated” to do so.
Just speaking from my experience - those spurs be deep.
I’m not sure - the ones I know that are gentler seem to be able to do pretty well, but they are more local types - they build on it with tiny baby steps and the horses do pretty well. Perhaps, like all things, it’s rougher the higher level that you go to get the performance required. The minute the big money enters the equation the temptation is there to get more out of the horse than they can rationally offer without…persuasion of more violent or abusive means.
Which is what we were talking about initially. Huzzah! Full circle!
Which unfortunately appears to have been completely missed by the current “world class” dressage mob.
You can totally get a great spin without force.
what does it mean to throw ones cookies out of the cot? never heard that one before
Haven’t read this yet
Ok. Will it win at the top?
My New Zealander friend introduced me to that saying lol Basically, when he has a strong opinion about something he loses his ever-loving mind. I think it’s referencing babies throwing literal cookies out of their crib (cot) when they are having a tantrum, but I’m not entirely sure.
What I see as missing from a lot of dressage, both at the upper and local levels, is the adherence to the rider’s or competition schedule. The dressage/training is pushed to move onto the next thing before the horse has time to relax and master the skill. As a result you see unyielding hands and the horse’s body’s response of holding tension to prevent them coming through.
As in the example with the saddle seat, you can have light hands but still have a horse that is not working up and over the top line via a strong core. Or you have a “strong” top line by way of genetics but without the relaxation that allows for greater proprioception for control of the limbs that comes from the acceptance of the aids.
With today’s medical advances, we’re able to add longevity to a horse’s career but that can come to the detriment of the horse if maintenance starts at 5 and remedial medication starts soon after.
Sure. It could. Depends on who did it. If it was a name, yes.
Videos or it’s a pipedream. I just don’t believe you can get serious spins without some serious pressure along the journey.
I mean everyone is a legend at home 
My friend says “i threw my sucker in the dirt” when he gets frustrated and rage quits whatever he was trying to do. I’m guessing it’s the American version, lol. I always picture a toddler in a stroller losing their mind and chucking their snacks on the ground, which seems to be the general gist
a/k/a: throwing one’s toys out of one’s pram
a/k/a: chucking a tanny (alt: tanty)
a/k/a: spitting the dummy
It’s a safe bet for sure on your part because you can’t prove a negative. Even if I presented a video with a perfect pressure free spin video, you would then question the quality of the training to get there.
Thankfully, I’m secure enough in my knowledge and expertise to know the facts.
I’ve ridden some great reiners. My former horse was one.
Belasik. I have his book “Riding Towards the Light.”
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