And how is FEI oversight working for Dressage?
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I hold out hope that the move by the NRHA was a reactionary last gasp because it is populated by a large group of âanti-establishmentâ kinds of people who will do the opposite of whatever they are told just because they are told to.
Hopefully anyway.
I think Charlotteâs case does highlight the many different kinds of abuse, from intentional violence to produce an aim that is against the rules, normal practices that maybe should evolve, and things that maybe are lesser (like lesson horses and trail strings having to put up with all that they put up with) and unintentional.
A question that is on my mind is the question of - if we removed the element of competition and $$, would things change? I think we would always have cases, but perhaps they would be of the more garden variety human frailty type, rather than the âmotivated by greedâ type.
Not suggesting that happen, just a thought experiment.
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I understood she was judging under AQHA, not NRHA?
Thatâs fair, but to opt out because you donât want eyes on you is pretty blatant
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Klimke was my idol when I was competing in dressage, back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth. One thought does occur to me about the difference in the riding we used to see at the Olympic level vs now, is that at that time, you had to be an amateur to compete. Although this may have been a grey area for some, there wasnât the huge money and sponsorship like today. Big money has spoiled many equestrian sports.
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You bring up a good point about amateur status. The names off the top of my head are William Steinkraus (jumping) and Marjorie Haines Gill, Jessica Newberry Ransehousen (dressage) who were all from wealthy families.
This was also the times post WWII when âamateurâ riders were coached by ex-cavalrymenâŠor were themselves ex-cavalry (Steinkraus) and thus were steeped in the traditions of training a functional working horse vs a show horse.
Going back to circa 1980âs to maybe early 1990âs, I recall there were big blow-ups in judging circles about judging. What I recall of that time is a cohort of the âold-timeâ judges were turning in their judging cards because they did not agree with the direction dressage judging was taking. Perhaps others on this forum may have better recollections on this.
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I agree that money can motivate many to train for shows harder, but donât think that most trainers would then become abusive, only those that already are, money just one more reason they excuse to themselves abuse?
Iâm not sure the âgood old daysâ of Klimke and cavalry officers were necessarily all that good if you were a horse.
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But it did. It stopped me.
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And that is where we disagree. I knew you werenât saying itâs better. You believe itâs a perfectly fine equestrian discipline. I feel otherwise. Thatâs all.
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Thank you for the correction, I see your point.
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I never said âother disciplines are worseâ so Iâm not sure where you are getting that with my post. I used the term starfishing to emphasize the severity of the sour aid used in barrel racing - if a dressage rider were to do this during a test, they would be eliminated and stoned, but this is common practice in other disciplines. Again, if horse welfare is truly the concern, we should broaden the lens and look at all disciplines instead of crucifying dressage riders with double standards - hence the examples. Having double standards around equine welfare will do absolutely nothing to improve the sport.
And policing others never works? Seriously? Policing others is often the only way it does work - Parra being a good example of that. Abusers generally do not hand themselves over and those closest to them are often vulnerable to the abuser. Many within the same discipline are often blind to their practices having been immersed into the culture so long. Abuse shouldnât be guarded and only called out by the special few who have been deemed privileged enough to do it. That type of gate keeping is how abuse prevails.
Also, if disparaging other disciplines irks you, why do it? Youâve applied the term dressage snob in this convo and you are also making blanket statement regarding dressage riders in general. Not all dressage riders are DQs strolling around with their noses in the air telling others they are doing it wrong. i truly do believe these types of misrepresentations are damaging.
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It seems that most disciplines have evolved from their original purposes to overdone/exaggerated movement/action/speed. Dressage, obviously from military needs. Was thinking about saddle seat and when you go back a ways, the horses and the ride were developed so plantation owners could comfortably (and likely calmly) get around on their properties. Fox hunting had a real purpose, and the horses were solid, brave and capable of jumping assorted thing. Look at what the hunter ring has become⊠Eventing and show jumping, same idea. Most western disciplines have morphed from their original ranch working needs. In all of these situations we now ask our horses for more physically, human nature is to be competitive, people want to win, make money training/selling, etc. This drive in turn leads to bad practices.
No one discipline is exempt. The ultimate fix is huge. yes we need to look at the judging criteria in many cases. Equipment is an area of concern. But the biggest challenge is what goes on âat homeâ - hard to police and hard to punish.
And the other reality is that the biggest problems are likely at the top of the sport. Somehow I dont think ammy riders doing lower level tests, or kids doing western trail classes, or the hunters jumping 2â6" at local shows are abuse situations.
All of this is depressing and makes me glad Iâm done showing - except for my century ride if the beast and I last a few more years. I still lesson - my trainerâs goal is to keep ME fit and the horse happy.
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Absolutely.
Pretty much across the board.
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Agreed. Everything is blown to serious extremes. Hence my example with reining. Itâs not even pretty to watch anymore, at most levels.
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To me barrel racing is a really unique discipline. All disciplines struggle with what goes on behind closed doors. To my knowledge, barrel racing is the only discipline where dramatic leg flapping and whipping is not only permitted but encouraged in public. I agree with the statement above that if I walked into a dressage test and applied the aids widely used in barrel racing to get a canter transition or keep a canter, it would be viral in a New York minute.
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Once again, I AM a dressage rider and I applied it to ONE dressage rider who said that all of saddleseat was abusive and pointless. Pretty sure Iâm not calling myself names 
I call âem like I see âem sister.
And I meant policing other disciplines. We should clean up our own, we spend a LOT, and I mean a LOT of time calling out other disciplines every time we feel like our discipline is attacked.
Edited to add: if youâd like some proof, hereâs me in a dressage lesson with Alex Gerding on one of my nontraditional mounts. I believe he was a spotted saddle horse. He liked him a lot, even though the horse was being an absolute pill that day because it got cold suddenly.
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Hell even the dog world is not exempt.
We are still force breaking dogs to retrieve, in 2024.
If you donât know what that is, in a nutshell - the dogs options are pain (ear pinch, toe hitch, etc.) or pick the object up.
People will say itâs necessary. What if the dog wonât retrieve the bird that you blew the guts out of and is totally disgusting? Yeah, I wouldnât expect our dogs to retrieve something I obliterated, so how about that.
Itâs not necessary. Period.
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Well itâs funny - I was just reading Alexandra Kurlandâs book and most of us were taught that it was necessary. Ask, tell, demand was how I was taught leg cues. Even the non-abusive was command and control based. The horse does x and if they donât do x they are punished. Anything else is sissified or dangerous.
I went back to Podjhasky and he was talking about how Pluvinel and Guerniere were ridiculed for their gentler approaches. These approaches run deep.
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It wasnât a shitty experience, really. He was a very smart and difficult horse, yes. However I learned so much with him. I learned in particular to find different avenues of training. You COULD NOT force this horse in any way. You always had to find a side door to get in. Show him what you wanted and he offered it. He learned so quickly, my coach once said he learned and by the time he got around the ring once he had it figured out. He had a very strong personality and was huge. If you asked him, he gave you everything. However. He did have to realize he was not running the show, and the backing up was dangerous to us both, and he would stop at nothing~ move or get out of his way, he was coming through. He was a dominant horse with other horses. There were so many angles to him, I learned so much with him absolutely. He had every health benifit. He was a healthy fit 3 year old when I bought him and my best friend was a. Leading vet in the industry at the time. The behaviour was inherent in his breeding. His older brother was an Olympic horse and was handled with a cage muzzle.
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