Charlotte withdrawing from Olympics?

[Djones]

@Warmblood1

You missed quite a bit if you think that is what I’m saying. Scroll back up and read the line of convo regarding double standards, how there have been several other players who have done much more egregious things but didn’t make nightly news, etc.

Ah, yeah, I see how you took my post that way, and that’s not what I meant to convey.

I was specifically referring to Everyone thinks we all do that. I should have been clearer, that’s on me. I don’t agree that everyone thinks we’re all doing that. I don’t think the sky is falling. I do think that anyone who’s been in enough barns in any discipline knows that some will do anything if they think it will make the horse do the thing. Like some parents of cheerleaders will murder the competition to get their kids on the squad, some people have no bounds, and lots of people will stretch those normally-decent bounds to the razor thin limit, to get it done and keep the lights on.

I would hate hate hate to have to ride horses for money to pay my bills.

[Old_Mac_Donald]

@DownYonder

There was also that lesser known rider some years back who IIRC was charged with animal cruelty for a brutal beatdown of a horse. I cannot remember her name or the exact details but I think she was in either Germany or Denmark (?).

There was Coby van Baalen and “Paint and Power”, and I think I know the case you mention, though not the rider’s name

[Old_Mac_Donald]

Christine Wels.

After Christine Wels was caught on camera whipping her horse 470 times in a 32,5 minute session she was sentenced in 2008 to one year and 9 months on probation.

This abuse was reportedly handed out 5 times a week in 30 - 40 minute training sessions.

Wels, a former dressage rider, also received a working punishment for animal abuse and was forbidden to handle animals for two years.

The Former German International dressage rider and double World Cup winner then moved to Denmark where German laws don’t apply. She contined with the horrific abuse of the horses under her care.

In July of this year, while training a horse, Wels died of severe head injuries after being kicked by a horse.

[skydy]

Cassoe Kruth Temporarily Excluded from Danish National Team and Squad

[Bluey]

The NRHA answered the FEI removal with after years of cooperating, the FEI is insisting the NRHA come under the whole oversight of any reining competitions.
The NRHA didn’t think it was in the best interest of it’s members to do so.
May be why the FEI disassociate from the NRHA.
Why would the NRHA want to relinquish their association management, just to participate on a handful of FEI competitions, when they are a very large and successful continuously growing group in it’s own?

[Knights_Mom]

@DownYonder

@Knights_Mom

I never had any doubt he would use Dad’s tactics. Sins of the father.

So you think he also kills horses for insurance money?

Are you asking if I thought he has already committed the act? If so, no. I’m willing to bed he is capable of things that you or I wouldn’t do.

[DownYonder]

Right, Coby van Baalen was another one. Dang it, I wish I could remember the name of that other rider!

Oops, edited to add that OldMacDonald found it - Christine Wels! I had also forgotten that she eventually got her comeuppance - a horse delivered the justice!

[Old_Mac_Donald]

I posted it after. It was Christine Wels. See my previous post.

[DownYonder]

As for FEI and the reining crowd - I believe the disagreement between the organizations had to do with FEI regulations regarding the minimum age of horses eligible for international competitions. NRHA didn’t want to abide by those regulations because of how it would affect their y/h futurities. FEI wouldn’t budge, NRHA didn’t want to give up that lucrative part of its income, so the organizations agreed to disagree and went their separate ways again. I think I also saw something somewhere that the reining folks felt that FEI was “using” NRHA to bring $$$ into the fold but NRHA was getting far less out of the deal than FEI so NRHA elected to take its toys and go home.

[jvanrens]

NRHA does not have 2 year old futurities.

[DownYonder]

@jvanrens

NRHA does not have 2 year old futurities.

Sorry, I meant to type 3 y/o but decided to correct it to y/h. I don’t remember the exact age discussions, but do remember that much of the disagreement had to do with the difference of opinion regarding the appropriate age of young horses in competitions.

[jvanrens]

The NRHA had no problem with the age restrictions on the FEI events though. There were actually some very nice stallions that had been taken out of retirement to show in those events. They just weren’t going to bow down and say yes sir to the FEI having total oversite of everything. Can’t say as I blame them. I doubt their membership really misses it.

[Mardi1]

There was more to the FEI’s decision than minimum age. It included stewarding, and anti-doping issues. This article details the disagreements between the two organizations

FEI Set to Eject the Discipline of Reining at the End of 2019

There was trouble at the 2011 FEI World Reining Final in Sweden that began FEI’s consideration to remove reining. FEI Chief Steward Eric Straus’ failure to stop questionable riding in the warm-up brought an international outcry that got the FEI’s attention. No riders received yellow cards, although many thought they should have.
At least two new FEI rules came out of that mess - no running horses into a fence,
and a lower number of consecutive spins allowed. The FEI worked out the new rules with NRHA and in a sense reining was on probation for awhile, but in the long run, it didn’t work out.

Reining didn’t want to be a part of FEI’s competition oversight policies, and FEI didn’t want the poor public relations, rocky oversight, and horse welfare issues, that came with reining. The success of the partnership was dubious from the beginning, so the split worked out well for both.

[Cowgirl]

My heart is broken. It is clear that dressage has gone down a dark path. I am sad that the warnings of the Xenophon society were ignored when what they were worked up about was rollkur (which got bastardized after it was initially used as a way to occupy a hot spooky horse and keep them from wigging), not bungees and whipping.

I think we need an Equine Ethics arm of the FEI and the Xenophons should be on it. That includes: Christine Stuckelberg, Klaus Balkenhol and others like them. Hey maybe we should include members of the public whose stomachs roil when they see the garbage training that is being exposed. I’d rather put this in the hands of couch surfers than the Carina Cassoe Kruths of the world. Let them put some standards for training in place and let there be inspections of horses and much more oversight. Let’s empower the TDs or get rid of them and hire an independent third party to monitor warmups.

But we also have to address the corruption in the organizations. Who is going to take that on?

[Knights_Mom]

Needs to be trained outsiders to monitor riding at FEI shows. No one with any friendships or family involved, not anyone with the FEI like a steward or else we are just back to square one.

[Cowgirl]

FEI doesn’t even have a gift policy for officials. Every organization in the US probably has a gift policy, in that, hey you can’t accept gifts from vendors, clients, sponsors, etc. Conflicts of interest is what causes corruption.

You know I would advocate for a splitting off and having a separate organization dedicated to ethical training and riding of horses (which is actually possible, PETA), and shows that judge for basics and harmony, but I don’t want to turn my back on what is obviously going on. Next week is Lamplight US National Young Horse Championships–how many of those winners have disappeared never to be seen again?

[Cowgirl]

Hey. I grew up in the 70s and 80s in Chicago doing the show jumping circuit with the Jaynes and Ken Hansen and Barney Wards of it all. We went to big shows with two dobermans that we would chain at either end of our barn aisle. Our groom, a man who was used to race track folk, would sleep in the tack room. They weren’t just killing horses for insurance, but were also attacking their competition. YET, my trainer, who was a USET judge, would not allow us to wear spurs until we had properly conditioned our horses through a prescribed weekly training program including 40 minutes of trot sets on a galloping track 3x per week, gymnastics and dressage, riding without stirrups every week, and one day per week of jumping exercises or courses. We had to learn to get our horses in front of the aids without spurs to earn spurs. There are plenty of good people out there training the right way. Those people now need to be in control of the sport.

[Bluey]

Lost me at anything to do with PETA?
Serious conflict of interest to involve in any way fanatics intended to eliminate ANY use of animals by humans?
What a seriously crazy idea!

The root of the abuse problems are abusing humans.
Abusing humans happen in any group, not just in the horse world.
Abusers are to be found out and made examples of and is an unending battle.
Associations need to become more proactive against abuse, providing rules defining clearly what is abusive, more monitoring and enforcing them.

The horse world has made advances against abuses, see current rules of conduct, of drug monitoring, of whip use, etc.
Obviously we need to do more, associations and members are the ones that need to step up, educate so everyone can help keep abusers from abusing.
Stopping abuse is an unending task.
Is imperative for the horse world to stop abusers to keep it’s social license to exist in our cultures.

[Cowgirl]

??? My note to PETA is that it is possible to ethically train horses. We don’t have to eliminate the sport. We don’t have to go as extreme as PETA and we don’t have to split off and turn our backs on what is happening in mainstream sport. BUT I am lost as to what humans are being abused in your message??? ALL of what I have seen is horse abuse. Unfortunately, what we do have is control of the sport among a few handfuls of people, some of whom are either unethical themselves or too political to stand up to what is happening. Are you saying that this is abuse of the top riders, not them abusing their horses? Because I think video would beg to differ with you.

[Bluey]

We may be crossing wires here.
Abuse happens where abusers can abuse, in churches and schools, in animal rescues from all places and barns and any other place.

A way to stop abusers is what is needed, wherever abuse may happen.
Stopping abuse in our current horse world needs to be addressed by that horse world, just as abuse in churches and schools is managed there.

That wss my point, is up to us horse people and thru our horse associations seems one more way to manage abusers.