Chaste Berry Powder/Pellets for moody mare? Not expecting miracles, but would like something to take the edge off her cycles

[Kottbulle]

I have a 14 yr old mare who clearly has issues when she is cycling. Most noticeably she will charge thru gates, and not want to go down aisle ways or thru standard stall doorways, under saddle she simple won’t go forward, suddenly can’t walk over even poles on the ground and asking her to jump is taking your life into your own hands.

She has been on Regumate but it takes 20 cc to even see a difference. and After several failed breeding attempts,and not having much success with her under saddle, never sure if its bad past training or hormones or combo of both, I am not looking to spend that much money on a horse that is essentially a pretty pasture pet.

I have been somewhat successful in doing some behavior modification regarding her going in and out of gates, and stalls, and her gate manners have improved, and she is more relaxed and focused but once she is in heat her old behaviors come back. She also can act very colicy a couple times year when she has a bad estrus usually in the Fall and Spring, but she does cycle all winter. Banamine always resolves the discomfort and she never has loss of gut sounds, continues to poop, but is clearly in pain and uncomfortable.

I realize that Regumate is the only thing that will really solve this issue, but I am looking for something that will help take the edge off things and make her more comfortable, and less during that time of the month.
so any feedback would be great… ideally interested in dosage if people are willing to share.
She is already on a magnesium supplement (Quiescence) which has helped.Tried the raspberry leaves and didn’t see any change in behavior.

[Simkie]

I’m also interested in trying chaste tree berry this year, so curious what responses you get here.

My farrier speaks highly of Evitex, but it seems like the are other options with more active ingredient for lower cost.

[MyKindaFlower]

I use the Su-per Chasteberry liquid for my IR/PSSM gelding. It is marketed for mares but I noticed that there did not seem to be much difference between this and Evitex, so I thought I’d give it a try. It’s done well for my guy and I’m really happy with it. Cost is decent too.

Before I started using that supplement, I first tried the capsules available at Vitacost. Those were okay but didn’t seem to work as well as the liquid. I read somewhere that chaste berry in liquid form MAY be more bioavailable? Can’t swear by the accuracy of that though as I happened upon that statement doing some quick Google research.

OP, hope you (and Simkie) find something that works well for your situation!

[Kottbulle]

@Simkie my brief research on it does show that there are definitely lots of formulas. I think to rule things out I would ideally like to find a straight powder or pellet, Thankfully she will eat just about anything,

@MyKindaFlower I can believe that it might be better absorbed in a liquid form. I do better on a liquid joint supplement myself. I may have to start with dry version first. Our feed room isn’t heated so I don’t think i could handle adding one more frozen thing to my already frozen winter existence LOL… but if i notice a difference I may switch in the warmer months. Thank you for your replies!

[MyKindaFlower]

LOL. I hear you about the freezing, OP. I have to take a little container with the day’s serving out to the barn every morning when I make breakfast.

The stuff from Vitacost was decent. I used Oregon’s Wild Harvest. I broke open the capsules and sprinkled them in Tucker’s soupy hay cube mash but you might be able to slip the capsules in whole.

[ryansgirl]

I just started my mare on Chasteberry powder from Horsetech. It’s not on their website but they do carry it. My vet suggested Evitex but my mare is incredibly picky and being a liquid in winter it didn’t thrill me. With the powder from Horsetech I can feed it with a small amount of TC Senior as it sticks right to it…and my mare likes it.

She’s on it for Cushings (along with Prascend) but I’m curious to see if it helps her cycles (she’s not moody at all - just uncomfortable).

[newhorsemommy]

I really like SmartPak’s Leg Up Mare Pellets. They’re worth a try and they’re pretty cheap! I’ve tried raspberry leaves and such on her in the past. This seems to be working better. She’s actually nickering at me now. Either it’s helping or the mare just decided she finally liked me after 8 years

[Simkie]

SmartPak does a CTB pellet that looks interesting:

https://www.smartpakequine.com/ps/smart-and-simple-chasteberry-pellets-17076

The Su-Per liquid is what I’d been eyeballing, not really thinking of freezing and winter. I’d planned on starting in the spring, but this mare came into FLAMING, RAGING heat in January…so maybe I should chop chop on getting her on something. :-/

[lifeishorsesarelove]

I haven’t done chaste berry, but raspberry leaves seem to have worked well for us. I order in bulk from a herb supplier and pay less than half of what the Magic Mare supplement costs.

[TCA_Arabians]

While you’re trying all the above - consider buying a couple of copper, pipe sleeves. Drop them into her water bucket. Old horsemen would use copper pennies. I tried the copper pipe pieces. It worked for my mare! You have to change them out every so often.

[Kottbulle]

Thanks everyone for the replies… I did try her on the straight raspberry leave, just never saw any real difference. I have her Quiescence, which is suppose to be a calming type supplement, but its just magnesium and Chromium. She is able to focus better(not that she was spooky, more that she sort of shuts down when confronted with things that worry her) but doesn’t really seem to help with her heat cycles. I definitely think the magnesium helps, but looking to add the chaste berries as it seems there is some research that it can help hormonally. I’m not expecting miracles. but it sounds like its affordable and can’t hurt. Also looks like it would help our OTTB cushings mare, thats if i can’t that one to eat it…super picky. Thankfully the hormonal mare is a small pig and will eat anything!
@TCA Arabians what is the copper pipe sleeves suppose to go?

[MyKindaFlower]

@Simkie

SmartPak does a CTB pellet that looks interesting:

https://www.smartpakequine.com/ps/smart-and-simple-chasteberry-pellets-17076

The Su-Per liquid is what I’d been eyeballing, not really thinking of freezing and winter. I’d planned on starting in the spring, but this mare came into FLAMING, RAGING heat in January…so maybe I should chop chop on getting her on something. :-/

Yeah, it does freeze. If it’s possible, you could just bring out a single dose - that’s what I do but I have my horses at home. Not sure if that would work for you.

The other possibility is to call Gateway and ask if the efficacy (is that the right word here?) would be impacted by freezing? If not, I wonder if you could just stick several days or a week’s worth into individual containers and drop those into her grain? What I found is that mine didn’t freeze solid, it kind of turned to a hard slush. I was able to dump that into my guy’s wet cubes but I don’t know if it would impact the chaste berries, ‘chasteberryness?’

Thankfully, when mine froze, I was almost done with one bottle and the new bottle was in the house. I took the almost empty bottle in and when it thawed I did not see any difference in the appearance of the liquid. It didn’t separate and the consistency, color, and smell did not change.

Which reminds me, the liquid is more of a syrup in consistency. It looks kind of like cough syrup and smells like it would taste like a cherry candy. My guy would not eat it plain but is happy to consume it mixed into his grain.

On a completely unrelated note, has anyone else seen what a bottle of Pepto Bismol looks like after it has frozen and then thawed out? Ewwww - like a lava lamp gone very wrong.

[deltawave]

If a strong formulation of this product costs, let’s say, $25/month and it actually works (big IF), you will be spending $300/year presumably for many years. Cost to spay a mare with standing sedation is about $1000 and 100% chance of stopping all cycle-related behavior.

[TCA_Arabians]

Kottbulle - I’m not sure if you meant “where is it supposed to go” or “what is it supposed to do.?” It’s the copper. An old farrier of ours told us they’d use a bag of copper pennies in a mare’s water to lessen the antics of those with bad cycles. Good luck finding the pure pennies. I bought pieces of copper pipe… they sell them in all different sizes for plumbing. Dropped them in her water barrel and the difference was really noticeable. I had to buy a new one every so often. For one of our mares it was night and day for her (and for us).

You might talk to your vet about an ultrasound to be sure your mare doesn’t have a growth of some kind that worsens during her cycle. You can also discuss the prednisone implants. Others can chime in on side effects or efficacy of those. She’s telling you she’s in pain. She doesn’t want to play with you when she’s in pain. She’s not moody. She hurts. My take anyway.

[leheath]

My mare had a lot of pain-related behavior (rearing, spinning, kicking out, refusing to go forward at all) associated with her cycles and Regumate worked for a bit, but then required doses that exceeded my comfort-level and budget. Ultrasound showed she had way too many follicles on both ovaries (e.g. more than a dozen >2cm in size!) so until she ovulated, she was in a lot of pain. I had her spayed last fall. Cost was $2000 all in and it is done under standing sedation. Recovery was fairly straight forward. So far so good - much happier horse even though it is currently the start of cycling season and last year she would just stand in her stall looking angry/miserable at this time of year. This year she is her normal, happy self and her under saddle work is going better than ever and much more consistent.

I would definitely recommend an ultrasound when you next notice the worst behavioral symptoms. They are easy and fairly inexpensive and could really help you determine the root cause of the problem rather than guessing with various supplements.

[Simkie]

Thanks @MyKindaFlower! I have horses at home, so the only one inconvenienced by a liquid supplement in freezing weather is me I appreciate the details you’ve shared!

[Kottbulle]

[USER][/USER] and @leheath we have considered spaying but several vet’s have questioned if it would help at her age, especially considering if even at the higher dosage of Regumate, it really isn’t helping completely. And we would probably be very willing to just do the surgery if it were that cheap, but locally i have been quoted, $2000-3500… and the recovery time worries me ( one week stall rest, and one month small pasture, the stall rest would be hard as she would be screaming for the other horses… i also read somewhere that she would have to not lie down for several weeks, and she LOVES to lay down and sleep for 20-30 minutes flat out on her side… trust me it worries the car p out of me!!) So I am just not sure that we can justify the expense after all we have put into her just to have a pasture pet that may act better. Which is why i am exploring alternatives.

[Kottbulle]

@TCA Arabians very interesting… I suppose it can’t hurt to try. And now that she has gone back to full beast mode alpha mare ( not acting like a stallion, just trying to beat up anyone near her, she is back on individual turnout, so i could drop on in her outside and inside water buckets.

and she was ultrasounded extensively during the failed breeding attempts, even in her most raging moments (day she bucked me off twice in one ride… like hard and nasty bucked off) She was just found to be throwing lots of follicles and no tumors. She was also treated for a uterine infection at Rood and Riddle and has a caslick that is still in place after the last failed breeding. so i don’t think anything has changed infection or ovary wise… she is significantly better in her behaviors, and some of it is definitely due to my training, but it seems like her hormones can override the trust and training. Just frustrating. She can be a really sweet mare and she is super talented, but its gotten to a point where we are resigned to have her as a pasture ornament. Thankfully we have the property to let her be herself in individual turnout, but its just hard to justify spending more and more money on her when I have 4 other horses ( two over 25) and i need to weigh everyones well being.

[TCA_Arabians]

Kottebulle - By all means try the copper pipes in her water. It’s cheap and you’ll know within a cycle if it helps her. We decided not to breed our little gal. She was drop-dead beautiful. We didn’t want to pass on her personality. She banged the barn when in cycle. We’re talking a solid-steel barn. Darn if she didn’t tork the bolts on the sliding door. They were thick bolts. Had her with three different trainers. Too flighty for the ring or the trail. So, she was a beautiful yard ornament and lived out her life with us. The copper in her water barrel made a difference.

[Kottbulle]

@TCA Arabians Thanks! I will definitely give it a try… It can’t hurt and would love to make her happier… Thankfully spring is right around the corner and she can go back to living out 24/7 and looking majestic AF in her pasture. lol. Just hate to see her promise go to waste, but it is what it is… just glad have the means to let her live her life out in peace. We were willing to take a chance on her personality for breeding because she really is a sweet mare when not in heat. of course we were hoping for a colt to promptly geld. ;p but it wasn’t meant to be.