Cheap ribbons and empty packets – Do events appreciate the clientele?

[JP60]

[QUOTE=Trinity;8239543]
This is significantly more of an issue than “empty” packets (which are designed for INFORMATION, not goodies…!!) and “cheap” ribbons. The whining about these two things is really just ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
When is asking a question or pointing out a difference whining?

Whining is “I want a big fancy ribbon, how come I didn’t get that kind of
ribbon” or “What, no treats in my packet, geez, what good is this place. I paid a lot to get my treats”.

On the other hand someone noting that in the past, there use to be favors in a packet, larger, fancier ribbons at show and they posed the question, “What happened to them?”

I think stickysituation said this: “Ok, as I said earlier on in this thread, I do kind of miss the customized ribbons I used to see more commonly 10-15 years ago, although I’m very happy to win any ribbon at all.”

Is that whining or is that noting a distinction between two points and at least calling the question, what has changed.

13 pages later there has been many answers, much good debate, but not so much whining as I’ve read it. Considering you response, it seems to bolster the view that getting cool stuff creates a positive reaction “I was blown away” which in turns may bring you round again. Some, like Wildlifer are ambivalent as is their due, giving back ribbons which certainly points out that there are variations of people and they all approach this issue in different ways.

[redalter]

I just appreciate the basics - decent footing, parking, etc.
Run on time, and if not, please let people know.

[goodmorning]

Ribbons elicit memories as well. I see a ribbon & get all nostalgic…remember that day.

Those warm & fuzzy feelings are great. I have every right to have them. If I dont win a prize, break a bone, or get a scar - :lol: - what else can you visually use to recall that memory. A photo of a nonexisstent ribbon or victory gallop?

Keep the ribbons :lol: Dish them out to keep us happy when we are old & senile.

[KayBee]

[QUOTE=JP60;8239819]
When is asking a question or pointing out a difference whining?[/QUOTE]

I don’t mind a nostalgic look back. I do mind that changes, over time, are attributed to “shows not appreciating their clientele.” That, to me, is both whiny and entitled.

“Blown away,” to me, indicates that the person was happy and surprised, not that expectations were met. If an event can manage to do this, from a financial and organizational perspective, great. But if Event A can do it and Event B can’t, I think it’s obnoxious to attribute it to a lack of care on Event B’s part.

[QUOTE=redalter;8239835]I just appreciate the basics - decent footing, parking, etc.
Run on time, and if not, please let people know.[/QUOTE]

Agreed - timeliness and communication in the face of delays are key. We know that some things are out of the organizer’s control – weather; a hold on due to a fall;or the worst situations, a hold because the event can’t continue until an ambulance returns after rushing someone to the hospital. But I’d much rather not tack up and head over to stadium only to find out upon arriving that it’s going to be a while…

[QUOTE=goodmorning;8239857]Ribbons elicit memories as well. I see a ribbon & get all nostalgic…remember that day.

Those warm & fuzzy feelings are great. I have every right to have them. If I dont win a prize, break a bone, or get a scar - :lol: - what else can you visually use to recall that memory. A photo of a nonexisstent ribbon or victory gallop?

Keep the ribbons :lol: Dish them out to keep us happy when we are old & senile.[/QUOTE]

This thread started, not due to the lack of ribbons, but because a ribbon received wasn’t pretty or unique enough. Sure, I like a ribbon!

[JP60]

@KayBee;8240839

I don’t mind a nostalgic look back. I do mind that changes, over time, are attributed to “shows not appreciating their clientele.” That, to me, is both whiny and entitled.

and my point is that unless you know that person, saying to someone “stop whining” is disrespect and rude. It is a relative interpretation of a person’s thought that has no strong context for judgement. As best I can I try to keep the Mote in your eye parable as close to front and center when conversing least I step across the line into personal judgement.

Denny recently commented about ribbons and I loved his point. To extend it, if we are going to give them out, why not make them as fancy as reasonable can be. Whilst it may go to some wizened old vet of the fields who’s been there done that so many times that they can give that ribbon back, it could also be going to some kid or new Adult Ammie that would truly cherish that symbol of their work.

[subk]

I have ribbon that was literally cut from a roll of satin ribbon and written on with a marker and another that has a small rosette and is all of about 8 inches long. Those are my 2 most memorable ribbons. The one cut from a roll of satin came from the weekend I discovered grit and potential in myself that I didn’t know was there and the other was awarded for the apex of my riding career. The memories would be not be stronger or more significant if either of those ribbons had cost the organizer more money.

[KayBee]

[QUOTE=JP60;8241045]
and my point is that unless you know that person, saying to someone “stop whining” is disrespect and rude. It is a relative interpretation of a person’s thought that has no strong context for judgement. As best I can I try to keep the Mote in your eye parable as close to front and center when conversing least I step across the line into personal judgement. [/QUOTE]

I stand by my statement, which, for the record, was not “stop whining,” it was “I find this phrasing to be whiny and entitled.” Moreover, the comment was not was not directed at you, it was directed at the title of the Eventing Connect article.

So, rather than this being a “mote” maybe we should consider that any statements contrary to one’s own opinion/beliefs is not a personal attack.

Also, please make sure the person you are addressing is the SOURCE of whatever statement you take issue with. Interpreting someone’s statement/restating it in your own words and attributing it back to them… well, it can change both tone and meaning of their statement, and lead you to make unjustified accusations of rudeness.

Basically, I found my teeth were set on edge by how the title of the Eventing Connect article was phrased. I have presented my arguments as to why I feel that way, and suggested that there are many, many things that go into organizing an event, and “something special in your packet” may be either a) not a top priority or b) not a possibility. And that if it is a priority for someone, maybe volunteering to help make it happen may mean that it, y’know, actually happens. This is not rudeness. This is discussion.

Denny recently commented about ribbons and I loved his point. To extend it, if we are going to give them out, why not make them as fancy as reasonable can be. Whilst it may go to some wizened old vet of the fields who’s been there done that so many times that they can give that ribbon back, it could also be going to some kid or new Adult Ammie that would truly cherish that symbol of their work.

Repeating Denny’s comment, in this context, is bait and switch because this discussion has never been about “ribbons or no ribbons.” It’s been “how big the ribbon is” or “how specific to the event it is” or, in the words of the Eventing Connect contributor, how “cheap” it is.

The only comment I have read about “no ribbons” is someone saying that they wouldn’t take it if they were the only person to have competed in a division.

[PeanutButterPony]

Volunteer and make it real or it is just so much whining and navel picking.

I’m driving to an out of state show to scribe on a workday b/c that organization has given ME such great opportunities these last several years. so I’m going to help. My horse is sick with RAO so he can’t go- so I’ll go without him. And Give Back.

Honestly, I believe that volunteering is a tonic for the soul and answers the question 'where is the fun stuff, the little stuff?" it’s in the hands of the person who didn’t volunteer to take care of it.

[Ajierene]

[QUOTE=PeanutButterPony;8241456]
Volunteer and make it real or it is just so much whining and navel picking.

I’m driving to an out of state show to scribe on a workday b/c that organization has given ME such great opportunities these last several years. so I’m going to help. My horse is sick with RAO so he can’t go- so I’ll go without him. And Give Back.

Honestly, I believe that volunteering is a tonic for the soul and answers the question 'where is the fun stuff, the little stuff?" it’s in the hands of the person who didn’t volunteer to take care of it.[/QUOTE]

This whole “just volunteer” or “suck it up, it’s non-profit” grates on my nerve.

In my reserve unit, we plan a Christmas Party every year. Many on the Top Three Council live 3+hours away from base so planning is not easy. People take time from work and their families to help make the event go.

Every year, we debrief after the party - what went well? What should we drop? What can we add next year?

At NO POINT do we A) only offer the minimum and tell the complaining younger troops to “suck it up” or B) tell the younger troops to "quit whining and volunteer.

Every year we donate about 1/3 the cost to keep ticket prices low. The third we donate comes from dues, donations and fund raising (most of the money from fund raising comes from the same top three that also pay dues and otherwise donate).

So, when someone tells me “just be happy you got what you got, this is a non-profit” or “volunteer, then you will learn how everything really works and stop complaining”; I get annoyed.

There is nothing wrong with wondering what’s different today opposed to yesterday. There is nothing wrong with people saying what they wish some of the things they had before were back. It may be feasible, it may not. It may have stemmed from a legitimate need to cut expenses or from someone being in charge one year or the other cutting back just to cut back.

[subk]

[QUOTE=Ajierene;8241980]
This whole “just volunteer” or “suck it up, it’s non-profit” grates on my nerve.[/QUOTE]
You do realize that the beneficiaries of the “non-profit” in the eventing community are the riders themselves? The same ones complaining about how fluffy the ribbons are?

[Winding_Down]

Oh the ribbons of yesteryear! Well I also remember cross country courses where I was galloping alongside high tensile with cows looking at me, I remember clay landings off of banks and cross country jumps that had no ground lines, I remember water jumps up to the elbows with mud under foot.

I just do not get all this hype about ribbons and goodies. To me, a good event has good footing, good courses, lots of pleasant volunteers, fresh water, and no injuries. In doing an event evaluation, I have not found myself wanting to make comments about the ribbons not being fluffy enough, or the pretzels being crushed in the packet, or whatever.

And I fully agree that anyone and everyone should volunteer. It provides another perspective altogether…

[Ajierene]

[QUOTE=subk;8242034]
You do realize that the beneficiaries of the “non-profit” in the eventing community are the riders themselves? The same ones complaining about how fluffy the ribbons are?[/QUOTE]

And the beneficiaries of the Christmas party are the attendees themselves. The same ones that complained about the lack of seating for a $10/person all you can eat dinner. We don’t use that venue anymore because there ended up not being enough seating.

That was the least costly venue, but instead of just telling the attendees to “suck it up” we are figuring out how to make a more costly venue work for the same ticket price.

Now, I don’t expect events to plan to lose 1/3 of the cost of holding the event. I expect them to break even or profit, but I also expect that comments be taken into consideration - whether or not the paying attendee has the ability to volunteer.

[subk]

Were not talking about whether there is enough seating at a dinner, we’re talking about whether you liked the color of the napkins. And you know, they better be cloth instead of those tacky paper ones…

[Sticky_Situation]

[QUOTE=subk;8242034]
You do realize that the beneficiaries of the “non-profit” in the eventing community are the riders themselves? The same ones complaining about how fluffy the ribbons are?[/QUOTE]

And also, the same ones subsidizing the “non profit” with their entry fees.

It may very well be that in recent years events have put less of the income toward ribbons and favors and more toward nicer courses and better footing, which is a perfectly reasonable decision. Any time there is change for the better there may need to also be some compromise. So why not just explain this rather than vilifying and calling ungrateful anyone who has pointed out the things that they miss having from prior years? Is the appearance of the ribbons or receiving a participation award a huge important thing that greatly impinges on anyone’s enjoyment of eventing? Absolutely not … But liking those things doesn’t make you a horrible person that doesn’t appreciate event organizers

[KayBee]

[QUOTE=Sticky Situation;8242147]
Any time there is change for the better there may need to also be some compromise. So why not just explain this rather than vilifying and calling ungrateful anyone who has pointed out the things that they miss having from prior years? Is the appearance of the ribbons or receiving a participation award a huge important thing that greatly impinges on anyone’s enjoyment of eventing? Absolutely not … But liking those things doesn’t make you a horrible person that doesn’t appreciate event organizers :)[/QUOTE]

Liking or wanting them doesn’t make you whiny and entitled, no. But starting off by saying “Cheap Ribbons and Empty Packets: Do Events Appreciate Their Clientele?” is not a productive way to start the conversation. Nor does it acknowledge, as you do in your example, that this isn’t really a for-profit enterprise. The word “clientele” in particular, for me, is off-putting. And cheap is a loaded word.

The article was also guilty of generalizing from one particular person’s experience to all events in general.

IMO, there were way more productive ways to bring up this issue. Even asking “what’s changed about eventing that organizers/events don’t seem to place as much emphasis on the little things?” rather than putting it down to a lack of “appreciation.” Yes, I find the assumption that that the reason why ribbons aren’t as nice is because competitors are insufficiently appreciated to be whiny and entitled.

As for “explaining” why ribbons might not be as nice – that’s what this thread has largely been about: Why organizers might or might not place an emphasis on ribbons or gimmes in packets and why, if it’s important to you, you should consider doing something about it (either through the publicly available USEA feedback form or by volunteering to help out) rather than registering complaints in an online forum that are not likely to generate any concrete result at any particular event whose ribbons you are unimpressed by.

[LadyB]

I’m amazed that there is 14 pages.

[JP60]

[QUOTE=LadyB;8242497]
I’m amazed that there is 14 pages.[/QUOTE]
Technically…are 14 pages I guess ribbons do matter, one way or another

[DragonTea]

Ok so I will admit I couldn’t go through all 14 pages and read the whole thread… but it’s good to see so many care.

I did want to give a special shout out to Paradise Farm and Lellie for a great gift item with my packet last year and my entry!!! The reason I remember this? They gave out Cosequin buckets last year with all the people who entered - the buckets held out packets and pennies. I still to this day use and love love love my huge white cosequin bucket!!! Silly right? But seriously loved this. The bigger ribbons are great, love those too.

But in all honesty I find getting through cross country at the end of the day to be more rewarding than any ribbon, treat, or bucket. All your hard work going into the preparation for an eventing and the best feeling is the positive experience.