They already have to volunteer to be eligible for year end awards, and volunteers already receive a coupon to use toward another entry or schooling as well as a free t shirt. Having to volunteer in order to be a member is not really an incentive, as they would just not join and then we would not get the membership dues either.
I think mandatory volunteering would help. It also might help if the organizers offered out front a free stall and free xc school to anyone who did. For divisions that finished in the morning/afternoon, you could volunteer for the other half of the day. Or those who live not so far from the event could stuff packages/put up numbers.
[QUOTE=Highflyer;8219818]
They already have to volunteer to be eligible for year end awards, and volunteers already receive a coupon to use toward another entry or schooling as well as a free t shirt. Having to volunteer in order to be a member is not really an incentive, as they would just not join and then we would not get the membership dues either.[/QUOTE]
Not in Canada.
It’s such a crock that they can’t afford nicer ribbons. I run s schooling Short Course twice a year and get about 40 entries. I always have triple tier long ribbons that are nicer than most horse trials. I give prizes from 1st -8th also, good prizes at that. The cost is minimal compared to what the show brings in.
I started a thread on this on EMG that had a good outline of the costs. But don’t let anyone fool you, most the Horse Trials in Ontario bring in $15k - $70k.
Yes we want nicer ribbons. We pay the entry to win them, otherwise we are just there to school.
[QUOTE=LadyB;8219725]
But that’s the point, its something THAT simple. You think its funny, but something that easy would really make a difference. Odd yes, but it makes it more personal.[/QUOTE]
Just for another perspective…if I attended an event that had a lot of frivolous cheap extras, like a little packet of horse treats and a water bottle at the end of XC, I’d be rolling my eyes about why the event didn’t spend my entry fee more wisely. I suspect there are more people like you and more people like me, and event organizers have to balance our desires and needs.
If an event wants to blow cash on “extras,” I’d much prefer to see them spending cash on improving the spectator experience or advertising for more spectators. Events with spectators can attract sponsors and vendors. Events with sponsors and vendors tend to have extras to spare, like prizes for the competitors–which are on display all weekend, really so that the spectators can ogle them and buy one just like it, which helps pay for the prize gear that they’re giving to winning competitors. That’s smarter, to me, than trying to eke prize funding out of an already tight entry fee.
SOmething I’ve not read explicitly in regards to volunteering is the use of other local non-profit groups to help assist in the actual show. It is not like volunteers (all) need to be horse people, and it would seem that given the frequency of shows by a venue, asking for help would not be such a burden. Now if an organizer/owner has talked about this, forgive me, but again I’ve not seen it mentioned.
Off the top of my head, Girl scouts and boy scouts groups. Volunteering could be part of working towards a merit badge.
4H members
I was an adult officer with the Civil Air Patrol and we were active in helping out festivals and local shows for things like parking.
Pony Clubs, sure some of the members might be competitors, but the feeling is that not all.
School groups. Reaching out to the choir director or band director to see if any kids would help out in return for some extra credit.
As an introvert, reaching out is not an easy thing for me, but were I trying to put on a show, the idea of reaching out to the larger community would be the first thing I’d try and do. Hosting some local event (art festival for example), getting local farmers/shops interested in setting up booths. Making the show more than just about horses.
In the seven years I’ve been going to shows, averaging 4 or 5 a year in the past I’ve never seen anything other than people showing up, riding and leaving. The volunteers have mostly been horse type people and any vendor has just been horse related. Sure, yes, its a horse show JP, but if we really want to not just stop the bleeding, but give new life into the sport (and the horse world), maybe it is time to think outside the box and start to share our world a little more.
[QUOTE=JP60;8219761]
What I’m curious about is knowing how much do organizer pay the USEA officials and judges. Is there a reason that is not known or publicly posted? What is the difference between costs associated with the land as just private property and the costs associated with the operation of the show? Granted that organizers/owners say they don’t make money offering a show, but if they didn’t have a show, they still have costs so how much more do shows impact cost?[/QUOTE]
The best I could find was from the podcast transcript:
On top of that, you have everything from the cost to pay your officials, which is somewhere in the neighborhood with travel costs and everything else about $2,500 per official and I think a base minimum, they’re about five officials that every event needs to have per the rules to be able to operate from the TD to the President of the Ground Jury to the dressage Judge, you name it and that doesn’t really even take into account the safety coordinator or the scorer. You will also need a course designer, so with $2,500 per official, it adds up really quick if you’ve got a base minimum of five officials. Right there, you’re over $10,000 pretty quickly.
Also, I found this:
http://useventing.com/sites/default/files/USEA%20Entry%20Fees%20Presentation.pdf
[QUOTE=JP60;8219847]
SOmething I’ve not read explicitly in regards to volunteering is the use of other local non-profit groups to help assist in the actual show. [/QUOTE]
At the local event with timely scoring and prizes, that I think is the one Judy mentioned, they used boy scouts to do the parking.
MCTA…best parking ever even after 5 inches of rain night before…well organized…nice prizes.Useful…
At Kelly’s Ford Horse Trials last fall, they gave out little face brushes engraved with the name of the event to all the competitors. Judging from the responses on this thread, it probably seems unnecessary and trivial to most people, and a poor use of event monies, but I thought it was a really cool idea … It was something small and most likely fairly inexpensive, yet useful … And as an added bonus, even if it wasn’t your best weekend ever from a competitive standpoint, nobody went home totally empty-handed for the $400+ they probably spent to be there!
(If anyone involved in that event is reading this … Thank you, I thought it was a really nice touch!)
Jump Start HT @ KHP gave grooming towels with their logo in their packets. Silly how everyone appreciates a cheap souvenir of their ride. :tickled_pink: Some host a competitor party.
And there is a volunteer cost. They should be fed and appreciated also. Our local club uses 300 volunteers over 4 days, that’s a lot of lunches, snacks and fluids (sunscreen and bug spray …) not to speak of golf cart rentals as many of the organizers need for officials and coordinators, score runners, hospitality.
Salisbury Bank usually adds a gimme to the competitor packets at Millbrook, Town Hill, and Riga Meadows. Maybe Kent, too. I have 2 little first aid kids and I also got a measuring tool/level thingie that… doesn’t work. 
I’m in the camp of folks who doesn’t need to find something other than my bridle tag and pinney numbers in my packet, though. It’s a nice-to-have, not a need-to-have. More appreciated was the plentiful bottled water at Millbrook on some pretty steamy days.
I wonder if the starter trials do better at showing appreciation for the competitors? The ribbons are nicer (according to my trainer), there is often water, snacks, and carrots. The expense to run is much less, but the entry fees are also lower–usually $80-120 around here. I will stick to the starter trials until I am going training (in other words, forever!)
I haven’t competed for a few years now, but I used to get really excited getting a Hershey’s miniature in my packet. I guess I come cheap.
KayBee, Thank you.
So to answer my own question from before, according to USEA, your average entry fee breaks down like this:
[TABLE=“width: 310”]
[TR]
[TD]Category[/TD]
[TD]USEA Est[/TD]
[TD]Pct[/TD]
[TD]Entry[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Officials[/TD]
[TD] $ 7,385.00[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]20%[/TD]
[TD] $ 48.12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Staff[/TD]
[TD] $ 11,350.00[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]31%[/TD]
[TD] $ 73.96[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Safety[/TD]
[TD] $ 2,000.00[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]6%[/TD]
[TD] $ 13.03[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]XC Course[/TD]
[TD] $ 4,350.00[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]12%[/TD]
[TD] $ 28.34[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Show Jump[/TD]
[TD] $ 600.00[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]2%[/TD]
[TD] $ 3.91[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hospitality[/TD]
[TD] $ 3,980.00[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]11%[/TD]
[TD] $ 25.93[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Volunteers[/TD]
[TD] $ 3,100.00[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]9%[/TD]
[TD] $ 20.20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Prizes[/TD]
[TD] $ 700.00[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]2%[/TD]
[TD] $ 4.56[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Administration[/TD]
[TD] $ 1,750.00[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]5%[/TD]
[TD] $ 1.40[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Advertizing[/TD]
[TD] $ 850.00[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]2%[/TD]
[TD] $ 5.54[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Totals[/TD]
[TD] $ 36,065.00[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] $ 235.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Break Even:[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]153 Entries[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Now I could have issues with some of these numbers for are they amortized over time? Volunteers cost $3100? but what really surprised me was the $11,350.00 for staff. What?? What staff and why is that almost double the price tag for officials? $2000 for safety, but what if there are volunteer rescue squads, does that change?
So it is better, but almost more questions in one way.
In reading AJ’s article/commentary this last paragraph caught my mind:
Has this sport become so commercialized and professionalized that no one notices the little details anymore? Are events run solely for profit of the organizing entity, instead of out of passion for the sport and its participants? Because that is what it feels like.
Again, culled from reading posts from a collection of threads, many (some) folks are starting to see low level eventing (S-T) as less a competition and more the training/schooling ground for the next string of horses being moved up the levels. Sure, on a bad day I might beat Mike Plumb in Novice, but his reason for being there and mine are years apart. He gets first on some owner’s horse and its noted in the register for extra dollars down the road. I get first and the sight of that blue is golden.
I love tokens, I don’t mind the water bottles after xc, but I guess I get piqued a tiny bit when I think that Professionals treat the shows as means to an end that is far far away while I’m their sweating it out on the cross country walk and hoping to complete. The small things then really do matter.
Wholeheartedly agree with your post JP60
Addressing JP60’s the above as an owner of a pro ridden horse, I appreciate the details too. Mike Plumb might be jumping from horse to horse, but I have my one horse that I paid a lot of money to get there. And I like giving them treats or getting the gloves they won or a free schooling. I save all of my horses’ ribbons and have their first ribbons and all of their blues displayed in my house and all the rest in decorative bowls. I sweat it out on the XC walks with my rider and talk about all of the difficult combinations that they will meet. I wake up at 4 am at the shows. I provide all the food for my rider and I and cook and plan. I hold my breath when they go around the course and hope they complete. The 4 other owners for my rider are the same.
Just because we are getting experience for the horse and have a bigger goal in mind doesn’t mean that we treat it like it’s nothing. I still pay $1000s of dollars to get to that show (instead of taking a much needed vacation).
Maybe don’t give prizes and ribbons to the open divisions? I’ve noticed most open divisions in Ontario could care less, never take their tests or ribbons, its just another event to help sell the horse and create a good reputation. They just throw it all out because its about getting the qualifications to upgrade I find.
[QUOTE=JP60;8220261]
Now I could have issues with some of these numbers for are they amortized over time? Volunteers cost $3100? but what really surprised me was the $11,350.00 for staff. What?? What staff and why is that almost double the price tag for officials? $2000 for safety, but what if there are volunteer rescue squads, does that change?[/QUOTE]
Officials would include dressage judges (and there could be 3 or 4, depending on how many rings are being utilized), stadium judge, TD, and potentially other ground jury members.
Is the course designer an official, or staff? At some shows, there’s going to be a professional announcer; would that be a staff position? Not sure what else qualifies as staff, however. Is the organizer a paid position? Anyone know? Or does this include organizing fees that the USEA requires or something?
Across the venues I’ve competed in Areas 1 and 2, entry fees range from $160 to $210, which is below that $253 figure mentioned, so I’m thinking that we’re looking at an average that includes upper level-only/FEI events, rather than, say, Training or Advanced and below. And to put on something like Rolex, or even a 3-star, I’m sure there are other paid positions.
Bear in mind, though, that costs are going to be relative to locale, and that the example you quote is an average. Where gas/land prices are higher and volunteer EMTs do not exist, you’ll be looking at the higher overall costs, including things like volunteer lunches. Where the cost of living is cheaper, it’s likely that entry fees will be lower as well. And it may be that there are volunteers who, say, volunteer all 3 days at a 3-day who get access to catered meals, rather than brown bag lunches, which of course cost more.
Also, some venues may require a fee (like the Horse Parks of NJ and KY, maybe?) whereas other venues are playing “host” at their own expense.
“Volunteers” like the boy scouts that did the parking at MCTA get a donation. Ditto for EMTs who volunteer. The Course Designer and Course Builder generally get paid. At some events (like Fair Hill) there is a groundsperson who works at least part time year round. The announcer/ control person gets paid. Safety includes things like renting or buying and maintaining walkie talkies, horse ambulance… The vet and farrier get an on-call fee. Lots of people get at least some expense money in order to make it possible to drive around getting things together.
The “profit” is what goes to replacing fences, rings, footing, etc., none of which shows up on that list of expenses.
