Choosing a stallion for my mare!

[Ranorth]

Hello! I have a 13yr old 17h ottb maiden mare I’m looking to breed due to injury.

She competed very successfully through training level eventing and schooled prelim. She is a nice mover, has a fabulous jump, big gallop and a superb work ethic. She’s by Go Bob (arg) and her dam sure is Free House.

I would like to improve on her long back and terrible tb hooves. I previously thought about breeding to a Connemara to get some sturdiness but then read about the likelihood of throwing long backs.

I would like to breed something for myself that I could potentially do a 1 or 2* on one day.

Any suggestions welcome to a first time sport horse breeder!

[thereadinghorse]

Which breeds do you like? I would recommend a WB. But that’s due to me being from a WB country. Especially Contendro would be a perfect match to pair to a TB mare to get a really nice eventer, if this is what you‘re looking for. But I don’t know how shipping semen is done so I would look into some US WBs with nice eventing pedigree.

[thereadinghorse]

Viscount was sold to the US recently. He is a very nice showjumper and would for sure generate a nice eventer. I was thinking of breeding my mare to him, but life got in my way and breeding wasn’t possible.

Hotline, 2003 Black Hanoverian Stallion - (Hofrat x DeNiro x Wendepunkt) —...

Link shows a different horse but leads to Viscount.

[4horses]

Actually her back doesn’t look that long to me. You could definitely breed to a Connemara. I don’t think that would be a bad cross. Some Connemara’s have longer backs than others so look at each horse individually.

Being a thoroughbred, you mare is rather fine boned, so I would definitely look at something a bit sturdier. I can’t even make a suggestion because there are so many options that should work well. Just go look (and don’t forget about breeding for temperament too).

[Trak_Eventer]

There are some Trakehner stallions that might of interest to you!

Tatendrang competed through Adv and has produced UL offspring. ‘Tater Tots’ are known to be very ammy friendly and easy to train while also being very athletic.
Ladino is a younger stallion who is currently competing at Prelim. He has been riding by young riders, adult ammies, and was a catch ride for a YR in one of the LL long formats. His sire competed Intermediate eventing and GP dressage (producing 4* eventers and GP dressage horses).
Cardinali competed through Int. and was primarily campaigned by a YR, very sweet boy
Dickens of Holme Ranch is currently competing Prelim with a teen. His sire was a GP show jumper.
Herzensdieb is a very proven producer. My mare was bred to him a few times. His offspring (including mine) are easy to train, friendly, athletic. He himself was Champion at his stallion licensing. Scored high on jumping and dressage in his stallion testing. He has produced UL dressage and event horses.
Isselhook’s First Sight was top 10 at 6yo Eventing World Champs (Le Lion) and is producing lovely foals. He has had a super career and is with Doug Payne now.

You may check out: http://americantrakehner.com/ssa/auction/search_results.asp

Let me know if you have any questions!

[beowulf]

Saw the photo of the mare and the first thought I had was she looks like a great pairing for Tatendrang.

I also love Herzendieb too.

Duplexx and Invernness are two others on my watch list.

[Ranorth]

I think it could be the photo, she’s very long. That being said I’ve not had problems with her back, although she is harder to put together for dressage.

[thereadinghorse]

Isselhooks First Sight is nice! I know the breeder (I live very close), have seen the dam in person and my best friends owns a half sister to First Sight, which was easy to break in by an ammy and is nice with good manners and temper!

[thereadinghorse]

Thats „Für Immer“ a younger half sister to First Sight.

[Nootka]

I will plug in my boy here.

He is a 16.2h KNN lifetime approved Knabstrupper stallion. Currently winning 2nd level and schooling more advanced movements (halfpass, passage, shoulder in, piaffe…etc.) for showing this year. He was champion in Canada eventing for Entry and should be moving up this season. He wears no shoes and has a fantasic work ethic, movement and jump.

Drauma Hestar: Knabstrupper Stallion Pyxis av Drömmarna (draumahestarknabstruppers.com)

[Zlotych]

Nice mare! I dont find her too long in her back, actually. Too short backs are hard to fit a saddle to. To me her proportions match well, nice length of neck, good shoulder. She looks strong in her loin and LS connection too, so thats good! For me her croup is a bit too sloping, and the hindleg a bit sickle hocked, but she certainly appears to have quality! I would look to add a bit more bone, she is somewhat slight there too. I would look for a good moving jumper stallion (Not a Dressage stallion that can jump a little!) , and sorry to the TK fans, but overall they just do not have the scope or jumping technique that I would select for.

[Ranorth]

I agree with your assessment completely! And I like the thought process of finding a good loving jumper stallion. Definitely need more bone and much better feet.

Any stallions you like that fit that description?

[beowulf]

@Zlotych

sorry to the TK fans, but overall they just do not have the scope or jumping technique that I would select for.

For eventing? Some of the US’s soundest and longest campaigning UL eventers are Trakehners. Tsetserleg and Vandiver come to mind immediately. Take a look at the ATA SSA, there’s many UL eventers there.

A casual glance at any 4* or 5* entry list and you will see Trakehners are handily represented. They have also been present at every Olympic Game except one. I’m surprised to hear someone say they don’t have scope, considering. They are practically the posterchild registry for eventing talent.

[thereadinghorse]

If not wanting a Trakehner (which I can understand) I will again recommend a Contender-lined WB.

https://hanoverian.org/stallions/ahs-approved-stallions/conteros/

Conteros is very nice.

But again Viscount is great. He made dressage and showjumpers, so he really produces versatile offspring. I met him in person twice and he’s really as beautiful as pictured.

https://hanoverian.org/stallions/ahs-approved-stallions/apiro/
Apiro is nice, too. My mare has Argentan on her dam-side and this is also a stud, that produced many talented horses in both dressage and jumping. But Apiro has Pilot in the direct dam line. They tend to be a bit hot and difficult.

https://hanoverian.org/stallions/ahs-approved-stallions/king-kolibri/
If you don’t mind greys, King Kolibri is a very nice stud, too. Quite old pedigree and definitely a real “performance horses”, but for sure a real “machine” of a horse to breed with.

[thereadinghorse]

Thing is, there ARE very good jumping trakehners. But compared to the amount of “dressage lined” trakheners, the jumpers are very few. So the “general” trakehner isn’t so much bred for jumping purposes. But there ARE some with jumping lines in them. (Which for example Millenium is not)

[exvet]

I would look to some of the Trakehners first but I have also seen some very successful and nice TB x Welsh Cob crosses do well. As with Connemaras I would look for a stallion that meets the breed standard (hence no long back with very strong loins) and proven to have produced good offspring from such a cross. There are a handful in this country and Canada. The two that Tamara in TN and I produced from a conformation and movement standpoint were quite nice. One is still competing at novice at age 20 since being stepped down from his multiple duties including western equitation and cattle work. He loves to jump, really anything that keeps his mind engaged.

[Trak_Eventer]

Millennium is definitely ‘hot’ right now in dressage breeding across all registries.

There are some great show jumping lines in Trakehner breeding. Anything Abdullah, Almox Prints J, Hirtentanz to just name a few. Overall, the Trakehner studbook is smaller due to being a closed studbook/true breed rather than a registry.

If you’re open to frozen, there are also some great options with Trakehenrs. TSF Polartanz and Glucksruf are both available via frozen in the USA. Both are successful 4* eventers in Europe.

[beowulf]

@thereadinghorse

Thing is, there ARE very good jumping trakehners. But compared to the amount of “dressage lined” trakheners, the jumpers are very few. So the “general” trakehner isn’t so much bred for jumping purposes. But there ARE some with jumping lines in them. (Which for example Millenium is not)

Is that not the same for other registries? Why single out Trakehners? No one would say Hanoverians aren’t good jumpers because of De Niro or Wolkenstein.

Trakehners have been at the top of jumping sports for decades, despite a small breed registry relative to other WB books. They are not primarily a dressage breed AFAIK, though I can agree that certain stallions (like Millennium) have better put them on the map in dressage circles.

[thereadinghorse]

It’s just that the jumping lines in Trakehners are VERY rare. Much rarer than in other registries. That’s all.

[beowulf]

@thereadinghorse

It’s just that the jumping lines in Trakehners are VERY rare. Much rarer than in other registries. That’s all.

But they aren’t. Look at the SSA. 19 of the 23 stallions listed here have jumping pedigrees or are jumpers/eventers themselves:
http://americantrakehner.com/ssa/auction/search_results.asp

That is just a small sample size, but the Trakehner is fundamentally a very versatile breed registry. Two of the better known dressage sires in that index (Stiletto, Herzensdieb) are deceptively jumping lines. You don’t sire 4* and 5* eventers by being a dressage horse.

I’m not trying to nitpick everything you say, I just don’t believe this breed is predominately dressage bred or not good jumpers. I don’t even own a Trakehner, either - I just really appreciate their versatility.