I’ll take a look at this, thank you!
On a somewhat related note, I saw someone post one day about a series someone had about improving your horse’s movement through PT type stuff, but I can’t for the life of me remember what it was called. I think it had the word “movement” in the name but I’m not positive. It’s been driving me nuts!
If it was Balance Through Movement Method, don’t touch that with a 10 foot pole. There’s a whole thread here on it (the traveling horse witch). Basically, she’s a charlatan and the “PT” is just basic groundwork you can get for free or through some proven, inexpensive books.
Ya, this gal is quite educated. Check out this bio:
https://www.reachingstridesrehab.com/about
That’s exactly what it was and I had no idea it was her program! I’ve lightly perused that thread before.
Did you ever inject the neck?
If KS is ruled out I always go to feet, then neck.
I have injected the neck twice. The first time it was because he had begun more of a “bridle lameness” and we xrayed and found the OA in his neck. This was probably 4 years ago now, maybe 5.
The second time was when he came down with headshakers-we tried injecting the neck first since the head tossing seemed to be worse when he was asked to go in a frame, thought maybe it was the OA acting up. It was probably 2.5 years ago at this point.
It’s hard to say for certain how helpful it was-the first time I think it did help a bit, but we were just beginning to teach him how to really travel on the bit so we didn’t have a steady baseline. The second time I didn’t see a difference at all, however because what he really had was headshakers and not the OA flaring up like we thought, his symptoms wouldn’t have changed much anyways.
Headshaking is also associated with EPM.
Until recently, I understood EPM to be an acute illness that is obviously EPM - fever, ataxia, etc. Now I understand it can be much more insidious and go on for years with all these minor “weird things” that we look at and treat individually.
It’s time to take this horse to a clinic/hospital if you’re wanting to unravel this. He sounds like a battery of physical complaints and you’ve thrown a lot at him so far without seeing anything stick in an appreciable way.
You’re not wrong-it’s just that he’s 18 now and not really doing very much and I’ve spent a ton on another horse recently, so I can’t currently justify doing a full workup. I still ride him because otherwise he gets stiff, but I take it day-by-day and have spent the whole winter just letting him move out under me and standing off his back.
This plus stretches, Sure Foot Pads, and Back on Track products has been keeping him feeling pretty good currently, so I think I’m going to have to keep chipping away one thing at a time as I can afford it.
He honestly sounds like he has too much physical ailment to unpack in a single farm call. Biting the bullet and going straight to a clinical setting/hospital will save you money in the long run as you are not trying random modalities to see what sticks. Hospitals see a lot more soundness cases than an independent vet practice - with collective industrial experience most small vet practices can’t compare to. Think of how much $$ you’ve spent trying things all these years.
Maybe reframing things as you’ve written would help? You have an 18 y/o horse who you’ve owned for several years who has neck arthritis, a bone spur, hock arthritis, headshaking, behavioral issues under saddle (bucking, tripping, etc), chronic back pain, navicular, topline changes, etc. That stuff isn’t going to go away by itself. He’d probably benefit from routine injections in the neck and back (as in every 6 months), an aggressive trim cycle, 24/7 turnout (with a herd), and gently – more realistic riding expectations.
Do what works best for you, but don’t do nothing. You’ve been posting about your issues with this gelding enough that even a random internet stranger such as myself recognized the horse/situation. Horses with chronic pain need chronic maintenance to be comfortable - with or without riding. They also tend to need a “Triage” approach - multiple therapies at once - to improve enough to see long term benefits. My 2 cents worth what you paid for it.
This is beside the point because he does have a myriad of issues as you stated anyways, but I do have two different geldings. This one I have hardly posted about.
Do you have two 18 y/o geldings with bone spurs in the neck, chronic back pain, and hock arthritis? Are these two different geldings below? I remembered reading these threads when you first posted them. From the outside looking in, there’s a lot going on with this horse and he’d probably benefit from a clinical workup. I’m not saying this to rag on you. I own this horse to a lesser degree and the throwing things at the wall approach did not work, and wasted a ton of money.
No, those are the only two other posts about him I think. And I guess if we want to nitpick and dig up every old post to prove me wrong or whatever, which it feels like we are suddenly doing, then you can consider the Sure Foot pads about him too although that was more generic for both of my horses. Everything else has been about the other gelding.
Just because I am not doing one big workup in one go (which for the record, I have done before for this horse multiple times) does not mean I am standing by doing nothing. He is going on Adequan this spring (I never saw a difference with Legend so we are trying this to help maintain his hock arthritis instead), I have begun a whole stretching routine and am in the process of looking into other “rehab” type things for him such as mentioned above, I have pretty much fully reworked our rides to be more comfortable and enjoyable for him, and I am taking hind rads of his feet at his next appointment to check in on that in case any NPA could be putting additional strain on him.
I am totally not disagreeing with you that the horse is a mess, and if I had all the money in the world I would absolutely do a full workup and would probably just get a whole bone scan of him to really know. But I don’t have thousands handy to just throw at this all in one go. Everything I have done treatments for have been with real findings first - treated for ulcers based on a scope, injected hocks based off radiographs, injected neck based off radiographs, etc with the exception of the headshakers since that doesn’t have a tried and true answer that’s the same for every horse.
He is being seen by his vet frequently, with his next appointment being in a couple weeks. I just unfortunately don’t have the means to trailer in for one big appointment for him right now-if there comes a day when I can do so, I totally will. But in the meantime I will keep digging, one thing at a time as I can manage it.
So I think I’ve decided, with his next appointment coming up, I am definitely going to get rads of his hind feet and will consider an EPM test at the same time. He’s going to be starting Adequan soon to see if that helps with his arthritis since I didn’t ever notice a difference with the Legend. We will just wait and see what comes from that, and @PaddockWood I will be looking into Emily Rose as well. Thank you for the suggestion!
OP, we’re all on your side in this stuff. Beowulf has alot of experience and perspective. If she is offering suggestions, they are worth hearing. You have every right to disagree with anyone’s perspective, but I am a big fan of being open to what is being offered, before making the adult choice to agree or disagree. Again, we’re all with you and trying to help as best as we can. I’m sorry if it felt like nitpicking.
I would agree that you might be spending more money by not doing a full work-up, than you are by taking things in pieces. If your horse is seeing the same vet frequently and you’re not getting anywhere, the horse might benefit from fresh eyes.
Good luck and we’ll all be interested to hear how things go.
In general, you absolutely will spend more money by doing things piece by piece. Been there done that got the tee shirt (and retiree) to show for it. Beowulf is dead on - this horse and the other one OP has are both multi-faceted lameness issues that seem to have multiple comorbidities that are muddying the waters. And that’s just what I can see from casual browsing of an Internet forum! A clinic or school is much more likely to have the experience and capacity to deal with cases like this vs even the best mobile vet - you’ll pay for one or two visits vs years of “let’s try Adequan or shoes and revisit is 3 months”.
However, I’ve also been in the position of only being able to afford the local vet call and a test or two, so hauling to the school was out of the question anyway. I’ve also had a horse that can’t be hauled and would be so amped up at the school that it would be useless for looking at subtle stuff anyway. So, from that perspective I totally get it. However, fresh eyes and a cohesive list of previous diagnostics + responses to treatment might be helpful in guiding OP through this. Honestly this horse sounds like he’s simply losing the ability to cope with his many issues, and either is going to take some experimenting with more costly, targeted maintenance OR should be retired… with maintenance. And a keen eye on QOL.
I hope the vet is able to at least get him more comfortable! Maybe the X-rays will be enlightening. Bad feet can make or break a horse. Keep up updated!
I sure hope the X-rays are enlightening! He lately has been happy under saddle just plodding around and doing small jumps on days he points himself at them, but if he ever starts to struggle he’s going to be retired quick. Honestly, I thought I was going to retire him in the fall but he felt pretty decent so I just kept trucking and he’s gone through this winter better than he ever has before. The Sure Foot Pads and stretches seemed to make the most difference, which is why I have a hunch about those hind feet making his hind end sore all around.
Just to reiterate, I said I do not disagree with beowulf. I just simply don’t have thousands of dollars to spend on this all at once right now.
But this thread isn’t to discuss my finances or to say the obvious “go to a vet” - it is just looking for others’ experiences with back pain and what, specifically for them, was causing it if it isn’t on the list of things I’ve already looked into. If anyone comes up with any other ideas I would love to bring them to my vet because we are both very open minded!
Back pain can be caused by AOE as my massage person says- accumulation of everything, or pain in hocks, stifles or ligaments as stated previously.
@Ottbaxel In your other post, I thought you were doing Adequan?
Otherwise to just treat the pain without a huge expense, I would consider Equioxx or bute, chiro, massage and Roboxin (muscle relaxant). You can go as far as you want down a rabbit hole or not. And obviously adjust his workload accordingly.
I am going to be! I’m just waiting a teeeeeeny bit longer to put him on it, so he can get the full effect when it’s actually nice enough to get out and about. Not that he’s going to be showing or anything, but hacking and hills and hopefully getting him off property from time to time just for fun.
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