The “public” can claim a horse. You have to pay for your owner’s license like everyone else does and must have a licensed trainer. That doesn’t mean you have to race the horse if you don’t want to. I have been the trainer of record for people who wanted to claim a horse but didn’t want to race it.
It’s a legitimate question–you shouldn’t be flamed for it. 
The short answer as I understand it is that the tracks are in the business of putting on races. That requires them to maintain a certain horse population and it puts rules in place to try to prevent people from claiming and taking the horse away from that track. It’s doesn’t always work but the trainer rule is one of those rules.
The other unsaid reason which I have not seen anywhere but I have thought of is the PR nightmare scenario. No the killers won’t be claiming because of the money but the public is just that. What’s to prevent someone from claiming the horse, taking it home to their garage and feed it fruitloops and Special K while charging people for pony rides in their backyard? Tracks have certain control over licensed owners and trainers. It has no control over John Q Public.
Of course that’s extreme and stupid but there are extremely stupid people out there…
I appreciate you fell in love with a horse. I think that’s happened to all of us at some point. But, just like there’s someone for everyone, there are a lot of horses out there. Falling in love with a horse through a picture or an ad or even in the paddock before a race is like an infatuation. You’ll find another if these owners won’t sell
I don’t disagree that the tracks don’t want just anybody claiming a horse, but if she meets all the criteria to get a license then she isn’t just anybody anymore, she is a licensed owner.
To add to Laurie’s comments, in racing sales via the claim box are made very quicly relative to the pace of many transactions in the H/J world. Trainer or his help scope out a horse from a distance, scan him before the race and drop the slip. No “can I get my vet in to look…?” or “What’s that thing he does with his hip?..” Trainers are used to this and don’t often understand how non race buyers often seem to deliberate so long. It’s “Here he is, if you want him, come get him. But he’s for sale and available to claim, you might not be the only one looking.”
Many countries use ratings and classifications but those places have FAR fewer horses racing. In Ireland for example the annual foal crop is less than 1/3 that of the US. Also, who would you hire to classify and reclassify horses on so many levels? A horse’s rating can limit his possible earnings and what races he can run in. If you have a horse that’s competive but not winning at (say ) $15k, you are within your rights to drop him to $10k, as long as you are willing to risk him for that price. If you have to wait for a committee to meet and decide to downgrade your horse you are wasting time.
I know that to non racing people the claiming system is odd, but it does work. It assure the horsemen that to a great extent, they will be able to spot their horses where they have a chance to earn. It assures the bettors (who fund the whole enterprise) that the races will be relatively competitive and fairly matched. Yes, horses “fall through the cracks” but they do everyplace where humans are using them for a livelihood. For the most part, trainers and owners after investing in the horse wants the horse to have every shot at success and mistreatment rarely leads to success.
I don’t think that claiming fosters abuse any more than any other situation where horses and humans meet. People do awful things to show horses of all breeds and types. Those who do should be punished and ostracized from the horse community but it’s unfair to blame claiming trainers as the font of all horse related evil.
[QUOTE=Linny;3811710]
Many countries use ratings and classifications but those places have FAR fewer horses racing. In Ireland for example the annual foal crop is less than 1/3 that of the US. Also, who would you hire to classify and reclassify horses on so many levels? [/QUOTE]
Not to state the obvious, but Ireland also has 1/60th the population of the USA, so in fact in relative terms it has a lot more horses racing per capita than the US. Racing in the US is not run as a monolithic whole, it is runs by many state run jurisdictions, so in essence it is no different to other parts of the world when it comes to racing officials and the amount of racing they have to govern. Surely if they can handicap every horse running in GB, they can do the NYRA can do the same.
As to who would you hire to classify horses, that’s the job of the official handicapper and his team.
Does that present issues with horses coming in from other jurisdictions/circuits? Sure it does, but you have the same issue in Europe where someone shows up in Ireland with a horse they just bought in France and the handicapper is unfamiliar with his record. The OH then has to look for common formlines and historical precedents and in the absence of that he’ll might assign a higher rating than the horse deserves until he runs and his true ability is established. If the owner/trainer thinks the rating is too punitive then the have the option of not running in a handicap and placing him somewhere else. Not the end of the world. It can be made to work.
I wanted to add something as far as an owners license… In Maryland if you apply for an owners license, you are subject to giving your financial info… they are going to make sure that you have the means to care for the horse, pay your trainer, the vet, etc.
Whether you are claiming one for 5K or 50K, the expenses can be the same.
I know I have given this advice on this board before, if you have a pet, that happens to be a TB, and you love them, then dont race them! You really up the anty as far as injuries go.
I have had horses claimed, and some of them I have claimed back and retired, because, yes, I loved them and worried about losing them completley, or that they would get hurt.
Mike Gill was claiming horses left and right at Suffolk last season.
Even if he is the minority, he’s all the reason I need to dislike the system.
[QUOTE=Barnfairy;3812083]
Mike Gill was claiming horses left and right at Suffolk last season.
Even if he is the minority, he’s all the reason I need to dislike the system.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. As much as I would love to watch a horse I owned race, the idea of someone like Gill claiming an animal I care about turns my stomach :dead:
[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;3811820]
I know I have given this advice on this board before, if you have a pet, that happens to be a TB, and you love them, then dont race them! You really up the anty as far as injuries go. [/QUOTE]
What a shame that 90% of the trainers feel this way. You are missing out on adding some new owners to the game.
I know the risks of the injuries. If I do the best I can, then I believe I can sleep at night even with a catastrophic injury on the track. When claiming is added to my worries for the race, I do not think I could sleep at night after losing a horse in a claim. I do not want the claiming game to go away - I just want more options. Again, I would be happy if they auctioned after the race as long as I can buy back. I cannot put a claim back in for my own horse - I have already checked into that.
My horses are not like my dogs, if they are healthy - I expect them to work in the area they are best at. My job is to help make the decisions that will keep them as healthy as possible, while racing, jumping whatever they seem to be best suited for. Then - I will do the best I can to keep them through their retirement. I have sold horses in the past and I may again, but I want the option of saying yes or no to their next owner.
Our filly that is owned by several family members and a couple of friends ended up running in a $25,000.00 claimer last summer. Our group did not want to do it, the nice filly won a state MSW 3 weeks before, but our trainer insisted that since nothing else was coming up in the conditions book, we should do this. We did not lose the filly, but I can tell you no one in this group preferred the $25,000.00 tag to the horse. This filly had given us tons of fun so far and it would have sent our entire group away from racing if she had been claimed. Besides, my Mother who is in her 90’s was not very happy with me and told me after the race to never let Ellie run in a claiming again.
Acertainsmile - what are you afraid of having people like us in racing? I think we are good for it - just give us more options so our only worry on race day is - please let our horses stay safe and not - please don’t let anyone claim them.
Pat said it all. If you want new owners in racing (and if Suffolk does not want to go the way of Wonderland and believe me with our idiot voters it could happen it NEEDS new blood in racing) there need to be options for people who want the fun and excitement of watching their horse race, without having to wonder every morning now “is my horse going to be injured” but “Is it still going to be my horse after the race?” Yes, there are options to get the horse back, IF the trainer who claimed it’s agreeable, or IF you are in the right place at the right time to claim it back, IF it isn’t injured and sold off.
I have a friend in the UK who, with her mother, went in on ownership of a racing filly. They don’t think of it as a pet but a way of being involved in a sport they enjoy. The idea of having to risk losing her just to be able to run her in appropriate company is abhorrent to them and they don’t know why we do it.
Have claimers–but don’t make them the ONLY option for lower-level horses and owners who aren’t multimillionaires. I’m not quite sure why this is such a terrible idea to people.
Thank you all for your helpful and informative replies.
This is the thing Pat, I dont write the condition book, so I believe my advice is good advice!! I’m not against what you are asking, and lord knows we need more good owners out there.
The problem quite frankly for a trainer, is they do NOT make their money off of the day rate, but rather the commission from when the horse earns money. An owner that is unwilling to run the horse where they belong becomes a problem. It really doesnt matter what the reason is, being unrealistic about the horses ability, or being afraid of having hime claimed.
I just wanted to add that if you have never experienced watching your horse be put down, you cant understand the total guilt you will feel for putting him in that position in the first place… I’d much rather see them get claimed… Our breakdown rate was very, very small, but that was always my biggest fear, unfortunatley it’s part of the game.
In 2004 - I watched my 17 yr old ottb break his leg cantering and making a turn in his pasture. Two minutes before it happened I stated out loud to myself about how sound he looked. I owned him for 13 yrs of on and off foot sore problems. His knee came out the side of his leg after receiveing a spiral fracture- bone fragments on the ground, all this as I was watching and no way of saving him and yes, I would have tried.
In 1999 - I watched as my 9 yr old ottb died from his 9th penicilin shot, that I had given.
In 2008 - I had to put down my 14 yr old ottb that I was trying to rehab after being diagnosed with Wobblers. He ended up foundering last year due in part to the gorgeous sugary grass hay I fed him. As a wobbler, I believe I had no choice. I still feel like I maybe put him down too soon, but you can bet I test all my hay now.
It would not be easy losing one in a race, don’t get me wrong - none of the above were either and I have lost others. To own horses for their life, means they are going to leave me in some way. It is not going to be easy most of the time.
I guess my hope is that I can hear some ideas to present to our Canterbury group to see what can be done to write some races for those of us like me. A quite a few people seem to think they could be interested in joining in racing, if there were alternatives. The CEOs at Canterbury have been very gracious whenever I write them with questions. Before I start touting off ideas to them I decided to see what kind of information I could gather on a forum. Some of the ideas have been great and some of you are just not interested in seeing a change. Hmmmm.
I don’t know much about racing but it would seem that there should be room for everybody. The bettors want to see horses run and people want to run horses. The owners have differing reasons why they want to run them. I think you would get some new blood intersted if claiming was optional, not mandatory, for the lower races.
Lord knows, horse sports are headed the way of the woolly rhinoceros if we don’t get new blood intersted.
Pat, not sure if your last sentence was aimed at me, but read my first sentence in my post… (the part where I said I wasnt against it)… I like Starter Allowances… I wish there were more of them!
My point of watching a horse be put down because YOU made the decision to run them is quite differrent than and illness, a freak accident in a field, etc… no different though than having one die while jumping, etc… I’m just saying that it should be more worrisome for an owner than having one claimed… and if you can honestly say that you are more worried about them being claimed, then maybe your not looking at racing realistically.
I’m quoting Pat because I think her point deserves reinforcement. And, racing really, really needs more owners like her (and no, I’m not just basing this statement on a couple of posts - I know Pat is an outstanding owner). :yes:
The problem is when most horsemen (myself included a lot of the time) hear an owner say “I don’t run to run for a tag” we start to think: Frootloop alert! Here’s a person who is completely barn blind and is going to be a pain in the butt - they’re going to want to win, win, win but insist on running their poor horse over it’s head and just blame the trainer when it runs up the track. And, honestly, there are a lot of owners like that.
But, the number one concern I hear from owners is fear of losing a horse to a claim. I think Pat has a very valid point. I’m still stuck on how to write the races to keep better horses from dropping and stealing a pot, though. Maybe something like starter allowance conditions, only backwards ie. for horses that have never started for more than $15k?
Pat, maybe the way to deliver the message is by forming something like an owners’ advocacy group. Owners tend to not have nearly as much voice as they should, so that might not be a bad idea. The group could get suggestions for what conditions the race would need to be at to fill and then you could go to the secretary with a concrete suggestion, ask him to put it on the overnights and if you could get it to fill, he’d be a lot more interested in writing more.
Claiming isn’t mandatory. I know of claiming horses that have run for the same owner for years, never being claimed. You also have the option of taking a horse back via the claim box. I simply cannot see how else to keep those with better stock from taking advantange of slower horses other than the risk of the claim. In many cases, if you have a decent, in form horse you probably know that some folks are looking at him. You can get a feel for what people may be willing to pay and try to spot him just outside that price range, but you risk facing horses just a bit better than he is and not winning.
Since the winner gets about 60% of the total purse and the second horse gets about 20%, in the long run you need to WIN races in order to do well with racehorses, especially claiming stock.
The claiming system give trainers the ease of moving up and down the ladder to take advantage of the horse’s form and assures that they run “where they belong.” If I have a horse that’s good at the $20k level but not winning, without the risk of the claim, there’s nothing to keep me from dropping in with $10k stock and winning everything. To draw a showing analogy, it’s like the AA show hunter appearing at a season’s worth of C shows and winning everything it enters. In this case, the drop down entrant is quite literally taking away the livelyhood of those he’s beating up on.
[QUOTE=SleepyFox;3813093]
Pat, maybe the way to deliver the message is by forming something like an owners’ advocacy group. Owners tend to not have nearly as much voice as they should, so that might not be a bad idea. The group could get suggestions for what conditions the race would need to be at to fill and then you could go to the secretary with a concrete suggestion, ask him to put it on the overnights and if you could get it to fill, he’d be a lot more interested in writing more.[/QUOTE]
Already done. It’s called TOBA. Most states have their own version, and there is also the KTA, state HBPA’s etc. I strongly urge all owners to join and get involved.
As far as going to the Racing Secretary with what races they need to write, I’m not sure if you realize how complicated that process is. It’s not just about writing races and getting them filled, it’s about timing. I have a NW3X filly that we can’t even find a spot for. It’s not always quite so easy to have 12 horses with the same conditions needing a race on the same day. Are there 12 NW3X at the track? Of course. Will they all be ready to run on, say, Jan. 28th? Probably not. Most owners aren’t aware of exactly where their horses are in training each day. Adding to that the fact that some of these races are put together quickly and I just don’t think the idea is feasible. Besides, if you are paying your trainer $85+ a day, then he/she should be doing that for you.
[QUOTE=Las Olas;3813495]
Already done. It’s called TOBA. Most states have their own version, and there is also the KTA, state HBPA’s etc. I strongly urge all owners to join and get involved.
As far as going to the Racing Secretary with what races they need to write, I’m not sure if you realize how complicated that process is. It’s not just about writing races and getting them filled, it’s about timing. I have a NW3X filly that we can’t even find a spot for. It’s not always quite so easy to have 12 horses with the same conditions needing a race on the same day. Are there 12 NW3X at the track? Of course. Will they all be ready to run on, say, Jan. 28th? Probably not. Most owners aren’t aware of exactly where their horses are in training each day. Adding to that the fact that some of these races are put together quickly and I just don’t think the idea is feasible. Besides, if you are paying your trainer $85+ a day, then he/she should be doing that for you.[/QUOTE]
I apologize for not being clear. What I meant was that a group of like-minded owners will have more voice than a single person when it comes to lobbying for a particular type of race. If you can go to the secretary and say “if you write this race, we’ll fill it” it’s going to be a lot harder to say no. TOBA is great and all, but they probably aren’t the vehicle for getting a particular race carded at one track.
Why is the idea not feasible? I’m not saying it’s perfect, but it’s better than just griping about the lack of options beyond claimers. If a group went to most secretaries with a concrete proposal for a race that they knew they had enough horses to at least make it go and said “hey, will you give us a chance and at least put it on the overnights” I think they would at the very least be heard and given some feedback.
Anyway, it’s just a thought. I play the claiming game and love it, so I’m not worried about it for me. But, if other owners see claiming races as an issue they’d like other options for, I think it’s worth putting some thought behind.
Wouldn’t a handicapping system work as well?
To draw a showing analogy, it’s like the AA show hunter appearing at a season’s worth of C shows and winning everything it enters. In this case, the drop down entrant is quite literally taking away the livelyhood of those he’s beating up on.
Not really the same thing. Hunter class wins are completely (and I mean totally) subjective. 
