Curious h/j-er needs help!
I need to claify the definition of dressage, or rather, if there are different types of dressage. Being primarily a h/j rider I was a little confused by the (loud) declaration of a new boarder in the barn who states she only rides “classical” dressage. When I asked her (very kindly!) what classical dressage is as opposed to dressage (becasue I had never heard the specification of a person riding classical dressage, I kinda thought all dressage was classical) she became upset and said I didn’t know what I was talking about. Which, of course, I didn’t, which is why I asked.
What is the difference between “classical” dressage and “regular” dressage? Could this be perhaps a difference of level (basic w/t/c stuff versus tempi-changes and piaffe’s)? Just curious and for my own education.
Any help appreciated.
Well, be prepared for a trainwreck as the classical vs. the competitive dressage mavens put up their dukes.
I compete, AND I strive for the classical standard. That is, no short cuts in the training, developing the horse in his own time, nothing forced.
As far as definition of “classical” vs. “regular” dressage – well, all of it should be “classical”, based on time-tested methods (Spanish Riding School, Cadre Noir, for instance) with the horse’s well-being in mind, to strengthen the horse and enhance his useful life.
This definition is off the top of my head and others will add to it/dissect/destroy/confirm/whatever. These sorts of threads are always lively and I usually watch from the sidelines…
Did you bring the popcorn, Beasmom? 
Yah, these usually go into trainwrecks. Sometimes nasty and usually interesting ones.
I agree with Beasmom’s assessment. Classical, or Traditional, as per the Four Schools using time-proven and traditional methods and with the horse’s health and longevity being paramount.
Competitive – short cuts, “modern” gimmicks and let’s get that blue ribbon/medal/level no matter what. As a result you have flashy, toe-flicking, incorrect extensions, piaffes with no sit, hollow backs and resistance. List could go on and on.
IMO it all boils down to what the judges reward and I’m not going to open THAT can of worms.
I’m of the classical school and will compete. When I’m ready. When my horse is ready. Whenever that is. No rush.
Eileen
I’ll go get the margarita mix.
YUMMY!
Tailgate party?
Eileen
HEY! MY name’s Eileen! Get your own first name! This one’s taken!
(HAhahahahaha!)
[QUOTE=Beasmom;4120812]
HEY! MY name’s Eileen! Get your own first name! This one’s taken!
(HAhahahahaha!)[/QUOTE]
Hey, now how cool is that?
Just don’t tell me you have a Lipizzan, too
Eileen
I have a cousin Eileen and used to do work for another Eileen, an animation director. We should all get together! Confusing!
The Eileen animation director and I attended an animation convention a few years ago in Hollywood. We had a great time introducing ourselves to people.
“Hi, I’m Eileen.”
“And so am I.”
People thought we were putting them on. Some would get mad, even!
Back to dressage. Where’s the fight? I want to see hair-pulling, eye-gouging screaming DQ’s rolling in the dirt, dammit.
Oh, Hannoverian and an ISR. No Lippizans – maybe some day.
OK…I’ve got the beer, chips and salsa to share. Before we begin to munch and crunch, I’ll put in my two cents worth:
I support all the other posts about slow, steady, correct, etc, but I also believe “classical” incorporates the training scale. If someone can not tell you what they believe are the differences between regular and classical, then they don’t know themselves!
Ok…now I’m on the tailgate slugging the Coronas…let the brawl begin.:yes::lol::winkgrin::winkgrin:
Back to the OP- Keltic I wouldn’t worry about not knowing what she’s talking about. it sounds like she doesn’t either.
It needn’t be a trainwreck. Classical dressage is lovely and competitive dressage builds upon it. I may as well ask you, what is the difference between field hunting and show ring hunting? One was built upon the other and the two often look very different don’t they?
Apparently I should have been in on something…
Thanks CapOnLap - wasn’t trying to start anything, I didn’t even know there was anything to start. I’ll keep that analogy in mind.
No further info needed, sorry if I appeared to have some alternate intention.
Oh, Keltic, no one was accusing you of wanting to start anything! In the past, when a newcomer wanders in and asks a perfectly reasonable question such as yours, it’s the respondents that "start’ stuff.
You’re fine, and it’s a legit question.
Can I play? I’m bored…
Let me swing first 
Competitive dressage: 1) does not correctly or patiently develop the horse up the training scale
- relies on the “crank and spank” method
OR
- uses evil tools such as draw reins or flash nose bands or really big spurs to force the horses into a fake frame and comply blindly to the witchy pooh rider on his back
and finally
- the most important thing in competitive dressage is to win the pretty blue ribbon, even if its a 35%.
There I said it…
In case any one is confused, I do ride “competitive dressage” as in I go to (a few) shows but if I try to ascribe to the above tenets, please send someone to my farm - I will probably be hanging in the rafters or splatted on the wall somewhere…
In all honesty, I don’t think there is as much difference as some people would have you believe (on both sides of the fence!)…
JMHO… from a lowly AA…
The definition of classical dressage will vary from rider to rider, and unfortunately, some use it as a flashy “key words” to attract clients or excuse the reason why they lack the respectful show scores… others use it to bash and ridicule competitive dresasge… you have to learn how to recognize a fake “classical dressage”… there are lots and lots of variations of "classical dressage, but I’ll give it a go:
I had/have several classical & competitive trainers, but tend to gravitate towards “classical” ones and consider myself more “classical” than anything else. I rode dressage in several countries. I love to show, love to volunteer for shows, and love to judge schooling shows.
Classical dressage methods are those that are proven to work and passed thru generations.
For the horse: classical dressage for me is the ability to recognize the talents of every horse and work on bringing those talents to shine. Not dismissing the horse if he lacks in one of the areas or in conformation, but instead recognizing and working on bringing areas where his talents lays. If something is difficult for the horse, having patience and a kindness to deal with issues. 23 centuries ago, even before saddles and stirrups were invented, Greek rider Xenophon wrote in his book “The art of the horsemanship”: http://cgi.ebay.com/Art-of-Horsemanship-Xenophon-horse-training-book-_W0QQitemZ330332397109QQcmdZViewItem
Xenophon:
“Never deal with him when you are in a fit of passion”…. “Every abrupt sign that you make him – sudden sights, sounds, or impressions – all disturb a horse just as they do a man. Abruptness, you must remember, always confuses a horse”…”Compulsion and blows inspire only more fear.”…” If you reward him with kindness after he has done as you wish, and punish him when he disobeys, he will be most likely to learn to obey as he ought” ….” If you desire to handle a good war-horse so as to make his action the more magnificent and striking you must refrain from pulling at his mouth with the bit as well as from spurring and whipping him”…” the horse should be rewarded as long as he behaves well.”…” Neither horse or man likes anything in the world that is excessive”…” It is the best of lessons if the horse gets a season of repose whenever he has behaved to his rider’s satisfaction” …”I can not tell a good horse from his color”
Classical dressage takes time and patience; understanding how horses respond to humans, knowing when to push and when to let go, but the most important is recognizing each horse for the best that they can do and not punishing them for their limitations.
Classical dressage for riders: I’ll have to write that later, have to run now.
Classical Dressage is like Classical Music. It always follows the old patterns and doesn’t accept new influences. People who call themselves Classical Dressage Riders or Trainers, are often forgetting that the horse breeders of today are more and more focussing on breeding tophorses and athletes, which need a new approach. The classical pyramide is like working with your first box of Lego and thinking that you can make a Spaceshuttle out of it.
Many people these days hide behind the word “Classical” because they can’t keep up with the development of the new generation of horses. And since trainers can’t put Doctor or Professor before their names they call themselves Classical trainers to attrack the innocent riders or sell their old fashioned horses.
Theo
Oh, bushwa, F2M!
And laughter off stage!!!
Keltic Kross-Actually my sympthies on the new boarder. She sounds like she will be such fun 
;).
I have great respect for both schools, the non-competitive but good classical riders and trainers, and the good competitive riders and trainers. It’s just the huffy look down their nose ones, that make me :lol: :lol:
[QUOTE=Beasmom;4121273]
Oh, bushwa, F2M![/QUOTE]
Ditto.
Rot and rubbish.
I think you mean “modern ways” for “modern results” F2M, and it’s the “modern results” that I look askance at.
Sounds more like you want to push a Cessna into being a space shuttle, when it’s STILL a Cessna and always will be.
Ooff, I didn’t want to get into this. I blame Beasmom feeding me too many margaritas!
Eileen
I detest draw reins for collection and spurs for impulsion, and would rather take 2 years to get forward and straight with energy on an App, QH, or TB, than get a ribbon at TL on a purpose bred 4 year old WB being ridden daily by my trainer with draw reins, so I guess that puts me the old fashioned, closed minded, unable to adjust to modern breeding motives, classical category. Ouch!
