You know,… like this.
http://s416.photobucket.com/user/sanmiranda/media/Nuno%20Oliveira/scan0017.jpg.html
Can anyone expand on this technique?
Does it have a name? Does it have specific uses? Advantages? etc?
My hunter jumper trainer, who greatly values flatwork, uses this technique and teaches all of her students to do the same. As she puts it, years ago everyone was well taught in the many uses of the whip, and now most that “use” whips are ineffective.
I have no idea what it is called, but it extremely effective for a horse that is ignoring your aids, or for a green horse that needs to learn to pay attention/respect to your aids. When you hold the whip upright, it does two things. First the horse pays more attention to the whip(in a good way), second when using the whip behind your leg you are able to produce a quicker, sharper, response than when holding the whip “normally”.
I hope this makes sense and is what you are looking for!
Also this is just based on my experience using this technique.
my trainer called it “sword whip” and I used it years ago on my schoolmaster to fire him up a bit when he was behind the leg.
OK as long as one does not hit the horse’s poll with the whip.
[QUOTE=AZ TD;8376890]
OK as long as one does not hit the horse’s poll with the whip.[/QUOTE]
Definitely not! Also I typically use a jumper bat when practicing this, as it can be a lot to have in front of you with a long dressage whip. This is not something I use everyday, just when I need a little extra oomph!
Something to add: I have used this technique with head-shy horses and they do not seem to mind it.
So… this would be a technique you would want to use with a horse that falls behind the leg then?
I’m trying to figure out when this would be applied, and when not. Thanks!
I don’t see how it can be quicker than a whip held in a down position.
However, if you want to really whip a horse, I guess it is one way to do it. Seems excessive at best and extreme if not used by someone with great control and balance and a secure position.
I’m so old I forgot the reason … I asked that question a long time ago and I think the answer was so that you could easily use it on one side or the other … you have it in a half way position so you can pass it to either side more quickly.
Generally you ask the horse with a leg aid first and if he doesn’t respond then you know to go to the whip, so keeping it on one side only is not really as efficient … since sometimes you need it on the inside, and sometimes on the outside …
We’re talking about a tap or a very light swat … when ‘going to the whip’ … on an already well schooled horse.
Maybe I’m confusing all of this… The way I was told to use it was to hold upright in my hand and when I could not get forward, I was told to wiggle my hand with the whip so as to make a noise. And the noise of the whip was what she reacted to, and it was a very effective tool.
She was not scared of it, but did react. When I didn’t need more response from her, it sat quietly upright in my hand as I rode.
*the whip did not touch her, or go down against my leg once in this time.
So I’m just wondering - when you see the masters with their whips upright, are they using the same technique? Is it just a resting state?
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8376968]
I don’t see how it can be quicker than a whip held in a down position.
However, if you want to really whip a horse, I guess it is one way to do it. Seems excessive at best and extreme if not used by someone with great control and balance and a secure position.[/QUOTE]
This confused me. I think you are picturing the whip being held upright so it can be brought down against the horse more quickly? Please read my description I just wrote. The whip down not touch the horse’s side, or even go to one side (that I am aware of).
I’m so unknowing about this and want to learn more…
For anyone interested, I found my answer here. Amazing what happens when the word “upright” comes to mind…
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?468211-Carrying-dressage-whip-upright
Really interesting. And yes, the trainer is from Spain, so this makes a ton of sense. And the horse is being trained out of bad laziness and complete disregard to the whip. And so far, it has been really effective. Won’t do this every day, but it’s a nice tool to have in the toolbox.
Posted by me / Baroque Pony:
We’re talking about a tap or a very light swat … when ‘going to the whip’ … on an already well schooled horse.
Posted by Lord Helpus:
I don’t see how it can be quicker than a whip held in a down position.
However, if you want to really whip a horse, I guess it is one way to do it. Seems excessive at best and extreme if not used by someone with great control and balance and a secure position.
WTF are you talking about, Lord Helpus?
Who in the hell needs to “really whip a horse” …
Franz Rockowanski used to say, “The vip (whip) is an aid, not a vepon (weapon).”
I get so disgusted with what I see and hear.
The dressage whip is long and springy so you can use it easily to TAP the friggin’ horse.
Anybody understand that?
The sound of the whip could work in forward movement, but how well is that in reenforcing a leg aid?
[QUOTE=BaroquePony;8376981]
Generally you ask the horse with a leg aid first and if he doesn’t respond then you know to go to the whip, so keeping it on one side only is not really as efficient … since sometimes you need it on the inside, and sometimes on the outside …[/QUOTE]
This is a perfect explanation why you would hold the whip upright.
Personally I see waving a whip around enough to create noise, a safety hazard. Someone could lose an eye!
[QUOTE=blonderider;8377170]
Personally I see waving a whip around enough to create noise, a safety hazard. Someone could lose an eye![/QUOTE]
I’ve swung my lunge whip overhead while riding so as to make a noise as a desensitizing sort of exercise. I don’t want my horse freaking out at various sounds. I do think, though, that one’s own intent has a lot to do with how stimuli are interpreted by the horse.
I thought part of using a whip in such a manner was to show off that a horse was well schooled enough to ride on the aids with one hand (granted, if a horse is so well schooled, then why would a whip be needed)… I’ll have to check out that other thread.
Interesting thoughts. I’ve never used a dressage whip in the tack as a resource to make a noise. If I use the whip I use it as a whip. I’m not trying to incite fear or discomfort but it is a single firm tap to reinforce my leg. I’d rather go “squeeze…TAP” and then have the whip be passive for the rest of the ride than to have to nag.
I can understand how a sensitive horse may react to the noise of a whip but I am struggling to envision a precise small movement consistently producing a well-timed noise. I am definitely not saying it is impossible, just not something I’ve seen done.
With the upright way of holding a whip I could see how the large movement of the whip through the air given the large 180 degree arc could create a stronger reaction allowing for a more expressive response without increasing the force of contact.
I guess I have used a similar method with a jump bat on a nappy pony. I am still applying a small tap but I make a bigger movement with the bat to signify “you know what this is and be aware that you are about to get a tap for that”. Most wise up and then a small flick of the bat gets a reaction without making contact.
