2.5 year old Clyde mare, 14.2 hands. This girl has been a problem for me from day one. Came to me as a rescue. Multiple vet visits and no one knows why she cant really gain weight… she has other issues, most likely OCD in hocks and stifles, we have xrays ordered and will be done soon, so with that she is not really able to engage her hind end. So I KNOW her top line will always be lacking until thats treated or figured out, but she just wont gain anywhere else. She was treated for ulcers as a preventative, but vet didn’t think that was the issues, blood work was fine. Shes currently on 12 pound soaked alfalfa (Dry weight) 12 pounds TC senior and free choice hay. Shes also on MSM and tri amino, had 5 massage therapy sessions and Chiropractor coming on the 5th of January. Her hay is great quality…she is always eating…Im just torn…I’m at my witts end. I thought it looked as if she was gaining, but then now it doesnt… My vet is stumped, and I’ve racked up 2 grand in vet bills! Shes super furry so she doesnt look as thin as she really is, but come summer, you will be able to see her ribs. Anyone have suggestions?? That maybe my vet hasnt thought of. I leave for a cruise in two weeks, but when I get back I will seek another opinion. Because whats a couple more grand?!? GRR
Her teeth WERE floated when I got her as well and its been two months
Did you scope for ulcers? It’s not as easy as 30 days of gastrogard will fix all ulcers. Odds are that gastrogard will fix squamous ulcers (upper stomach) and ulcers on the margo, but ulcers in the glandular part of the stomach are much trickier, and take much longer.
Also, if there is an underlying cause for the ulcers that isn’t dealt with, like chronic pain, you may not see improvement with treatment.
Any signs of hind gut ulcers? Have you run blood for vitamin E and selenium deficiency?
This isn’t just “youngsters often do, and should, look a bit ribby when growing so fast”? Dewormed with a PowerPac? Getting enough shelter/blanket if your area is cold/wet/windy? And you’ve been seeing this for more than a month or so, knowing it takes at least 30 days for weight to start showing?
Have you tested her for PSSM? Does her muscling seem ok relative to her size/weight? Have you tried adding fat to the diet, working up to 1lb per 1000lb? That equates to 2c oil, but if using non-oil sources you’d have to figure out amounts.
Is she growing? As in, is she getting taller, but remaining the same body score? Or is she not growing either?
How long have you had her, and what was her BCS then?
Dr Craig did not scope, but he just insisted it wasnt that, she was dewormed and her fecal came back negative. I Live in MO, its been unusually warm. I have a heated barn, she has blankets if needed. I Do not like to keep her stalled, ONLY when feeding and thats it or if the weather is very bad. When i talked with her original breeders they told me that they also could not ever get weight on her… from the day she was born, i guess when i take her back we can scope her just to be safe
Muscling does not seem good on topline but like i said she can not engage her hind end. I know we tested for a crap ton of stuff with labs, ill have to get that print out. She is not growing. has not grown in past 4 months according to last owner too…Its like no one can figure her out so they keep bouncing her around. I know her original breeders told me they thought about euthanizing her… I want to really find the cause, she will not be bounced around anymore!
It took me a few minutes to figure out what the heck I was looking at in that picture (tip: the withers are in the lower left).
I would think that with major hind end issues, you’d want to keep her on the slim side.
I too would wonder about a blood / hair biopsy for the myopathy storage diseases. Atrophy weakness reluctant gait
other than that, adding probiotic for increased digestive efficiency would be easy
She has no symptoms of PSSM??? She runs and plays and bucks and carries on…I wish I could upload a video! She is too cute and so sweet
They don’t always show symptoms of PSSM (or EPSM as it is sometimes referred to with drafts) when they are young and not in work. But the underlying metabolic issue is there, without muscle biopsy one can’t be sure. Her general lack of muscle suggests it.
In any case, drafts seem to really do well on a high fat, low sugar diet. Personally, I’d probably swap out the TC Senior for a good vitamin/mineral supplement, and up the calories through beet pulp and pure fat. Aiming for 20% plus of her calories coming from fat. If you want to stick with a complete feed, look at something like Buckeye’s Ultimate Finish (I think that is still called that) or Omegatin (Kent Feeds) which have that fat percentage.
I feed my Shire free choice grass hay (reasonable but not great quality), with extra calories a beet pulp mash that contains his vitamin/mineral supplement and whatever extra fat he needs depending on the season and work load.
Always worth a try, ill try anything! So do you think 12 pounds still of soaked alfalfa, with how much soaked beet pulp and what kind of fat?? Oil?? what kind of oil?? That would be cheaper than what im doing for sure. Her lack of size is weird too…shes so small for her age and her parents being 17 hands…
I used alfalfa pellets and canola oil with great success for my PSSM guy.
Hmm, trying to figure out how much hay I give on a daily basis…it is more than that probably closer to 25-30 lbs, or more. But my boy tips the scales at a little shy of a ton and it is so-so grass hay. Beet pulp is only about a two pounds dry. Any possibility of just giving her as much grass hay as she’ll eat and then using alfalfa pellets with oil? I use beet pulp as a carrier rather than alfalfa simply because my guy chokes on anything else. But, the protein from the alfalfa is useful, as is the Vitamin E.
With fat, you are aiming for up to 2 cups of oil a day per 1000lbs. Don’t introduce it all at once!!! Unless you want to add a horse with the runs to the fun. She may not be able to tolerate that much, in any case, it varies.
Check out Rural Heritage’s series of articles by Beth Valentine for a good run down on feeding fat and EPSM and other draft horse issues.
She has free choice hay now, ill just give her oil to her with her soaked alfalfa cubes
If she is running and bucking and playing, I wouldn’t worry too much. You don’t want to put weight on too quickly as it affects their hooves negatively.
You don’t want to gove so much feed that it goes to her brain and makes her silly either.
Agree that while young, they might not seem like they have PSSM. Though the lack of muscle development here may be one symptom
In any case, drafts seem to really do well on a high fat, low sugar diet. Personally, I’d probably swap out the TC Senior for a good vitamin/mineral supplement, and up the calories through beet pulp and pure fat.
Very curious why this suggestion. TC Sr is a high quality low NSC (11.7%) feed. I could see reducing to maybe 6lb, then adding back calories with fat, though not sure I’d agree with significant calories from beet pulp which would be high volume once soaked. Alfalfa pellets maybe.
. If you want to stick with a complete feed, look at something like Buckeye’s Ultimate Finish (I think that is still called that) or Omegatin (Kent Feeds) which have that fat percentage.
Do you mean in addition to a fortified feed? UF is just a fat supplement, and the Omegatin is ration balancer-like with half the protein but 20% fat so I’d be careful how much of that you added to a regular feed.
Are the pellets better than the cubes??
Cubes are better if you’re looking to increase long-stem fiber, and/or allow more chewing time.
Pellets are better if you’re looking for a higher calorie:volume ratio, and don’t need to worry about more long-stem fiber (ie the horse eats plenty of hay/grass).
Pellets are easier to store IMHO.
Fat most be in addition to a fortified feed, yes. My mistake on UF, could have sworn it was a complete feed. Bad memory.
I swapped out TC Sr (or its local,blue seal equivalent) for Beet pulp plus mineral/vitamin plus fat, because my guy needed the fat calories and the vitamin/minerals, but in order to get correct vit/min on a complete feed he is higher than a kite. The aim with him was the 20 to 25% calories from fat which a EPSM possible horse needs, the rest from long stem forage. The beet pulp in my case is not for added calories, but solely as a carrier for the fat. Or more to the point, the beet pulp is minimal calories in a horse weighing a ton, compared to the fat and the hay. I can’t use alfalfa due to his choke issues. Go figure, that beet pulp well, well soaked doesn’t do that! Weird horse.
