You guys have been great at answering some of my questions about breeding my stud dog, so here’s one more.
My boy was bred to a nice bitch and pups are due in 3 weeks. I can either choose the pick male puppy, or take a stud fee. I haven’t decided yet, and the breeder doesn’t care that I haven’t made up my mind; don’t have an exact count on puppies yet anyway. (I would only want a male anyway, so it was an easy agreement because he wants to place the 1st pick female).
If I were you, I would wait to see if there is a puppy in this litter you would want in any way or shape, or if you would prefer to take the stud fee.
Hopefully your contract allows for you to decide at 8 weeks or whatever.
If there is a dynamite male puppy, that you don’t want to house for some reason, but have a great partner who would, I would certainly consider that on a co-ownership basis.
But, if you don’t know any of these people, I would either take the male puppy, if there is an outstanding one in this litter, or take the stud fee.
But, what if there is an outstanding bitch in this litter? Do you have the option to take her, or co-own her with the bitch owner, with the option of getting something back from her if she she is bred?
Forgot to say… If you are considering taking a male, wait til he has teeth (a correct bite) and testicles (two).
I have living with me the pick male puppy from his breeder’s second litter. He’s lovely, nearly finished (I hate showing so this is my fault, not his), and I consider myself very lucky to have had him placed with me. His breeder has agreed to show him for me, but she also has a very busy schedule so he has only been out to 2 shows in nearly 3 years. This is frustrating for both of us, but it is what it is.
There have been some rough moments, but I think it would be that way regardless of a co-own or not.
[QUOTE=Houndhill;8216485]
If there is a dynamite male puppy, that you don’t want to house for some reason, but have a great partner who would, I would certainly consider that on a co-ownership basis.
But, if you don’t know any of these people, I would either take the male puppy, if there is an outstanding one in this litter, or take the stud fee.
But, what if there is an outstanding bitch in this litter? Do you have the option to take her, or co-own her with the bitch owner, with the option of getting something back from her if she she is bred?[/QUOTE]
That’s the tricky part - I have 3 dogs now and am caring for a 4th, so I am definitely not ready for a puppy. So I was entirely comfortable with the idea of just taking the stud fee and being happy to watch on from the sidelines.
Until people started saying “Seriously??? YOU aren’t taking one?” and then I got nervous. But co-owning…is tricky. If it was a great friend I would be more comfortable with the idea, but I worry about entanglements with people I don’t know…I’ve heard of crazy stories.
I know the breeder well, and this was a litter that I was happy to agree to and not have designs on the pick female. I have a nearly all male household (one older, spayed female), and am not ready to change that. I also have a litter planned for next year that I do want the pick puppy from…and I definitely can’t do 6 dogs.
So…I’ll definitely wait to see what the breeding produces to make a decision…just trying to consider all angles for the moment. I don’t want to regret anything, but I can’t keep them all. I bet you feel like that with every breeding. :yes:
Oh, and I will definitely wait on the bite and testicles - we know of another beautiful breeding that produced some exquisite puppies and two have incorrect bites. 
[QUOTE=Rhyadawn;8216510]
I have living with me the pick male puppy from his breeder’s second litter. He’s lovely, nearly finished (I hate showing so this is my fault, not his), and I consider myself very lucky to have had him placed with me. His breeder has agreed to show him for me, but she also has a very busy schedule so he has only been out to 2 shows in nearly 3 years. This is frustrating for both of us, but it is what it is.
There have been some rough moments, but I think it would be that way regardless of a co-own or not.[/QUOTE]
Do you live near the breeder? I think I would be much more comfortable with a co-ownership if we lived nearby. I like to show, but just can’t own too many dogs…so I would happily handle a co-owned dog if someone wanted that arrangement. But the one person suggested to me is several states away. Not sure I’m up for a long-distance co-ownership. It sounds like a “in name only” thing…and then it seems maybe the breeder should place the puppies as he sees fit and not put me in between.
I know of someone now that is having a major issue with their breeder/co-owner about showing. I know it can work out great, but when it goes bad, it goes really bad.
Just curious why you can’t pick a person to co-own the pup with? I have no problems doing a co-own, but I sure as heck am the one picking the person I’m co-owing with.
[QUOTE=S1969;8216564]
Do you live near the breeder? I think I would be much more comfortable with a co-ownership if we lived nearby. I like to show, but just can’t own too many dogs…so I would happily handle a co-owned dog if someone wanted that arrangement. But the one person suggested to me is several states away. Not sure I’m up for a long-distance co-ownership. It sounds like a “in name only” thing…and then it seems maybe the breeder should place the puppies as he sees fit and not put me in between.
I know of someone now that is having a major issue with their breeder/co-owner about showing. I know it can work out great, but when it goes bad, it goes really bad.[/QUOTE]
I live in Ontario and so does she, but that doesn’t say much when it takes 3 days to drive across the province 
My boy’s breeder is about 7 hours from me, so we meet halfway and he goes on vaca for a few weeks at a time.
[QUOTE=mommy peanut;8216590]
Just curious why you can’t pick a person to co-own the pup with? I have no problems doing a co-own, but I sure as heck am the one picking the person I’m co-owing with.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I definitely could, if I knew the right person. I just don’t. I have a bunch of friends that are almost ready for their next puppy, but not quite. If I knew someone - I would definitely be more interested in considering this. But there is a “friend of a breeder friend”…and that’s what brought this up…there is always a “friend of a friend” in the dog world… :yes:
At this point I am thinking it might be better not to enter into any arrangements with people I don’t know – the breeder can do that and I’m still in the loop, but at arms length. If this person isn’t interested in buying a puppy from this litter, maybe that’s a sign anyway.
Once the litter is born we’ll have a better idea of what we’re doing. Obviously if it’s all females it changes a lot of things. Or all males. 
[QUOTE=mommy peanut;8216590]
Just curious why you can’t pick a person to co-own the pup with? I have no problems doing a co-own, but I sure as heck am the one picking the person I’m co-owing with.[/QUOTE]
Just thinking about this again - it’s not the breeder that is suggesting someone, it’s a mutual friend of both of ours. I don’t think the breeder would ever suggest something like this.
Personnally, I perfer not to co-own unless I know the people well, and that includes people who have puppies from me.
You may be in a better position to take a puppy down the road, and then if you like these puppies your dog sired, perhaps you can have one of their offspring, if you like the way they are bred on with. Or perhaps your male will be used again, and you could take a puppy from that if you need to “Brittany Up”.
I recently looked at two litters sired by a male I co-own, and could have taken any of them, and there were some that were very nice ones, but, like you, I didn’t feel in a position where I could take a puppy at this particular time. It is hard to pass up the chance when you actually see them, especially if there are some exciting prospects! But your first obligation, as you so rightly note, is to the dogs already in your household. I’ve seen too many people who have let their numbers get to be more than they can devote enough time and attention to, and that’s a different number for everyone, and only you can be the judge of that.
Undertaking a co-ownership with people you don’t already know well could be more trouble than it is worth. You can stay connected to the puppies in this litter without co-owning, if you stay in touch with the new owners and are there to hold their hands when they need that, and celebrate with them when their puppy shows them how gifted, talented, and beautiful they are!
PS another thing to consider with a co-ownership of a nice male is that you need to be in agreement about all the potential breedings. Unless you are certain you share the same standards of health testing/performance/temperament of the prospective breedings, I wouldn’t do it.
If there is distance involved, each person might know different bitch owners and might be asking the other to trust them with a breeding where one party knew the bitch and her owners and the other didn’t. You have to really trust another breeder to be able to do that. Things could get messy.
Don’t do it on the co-ownership. It rarely works out, especially if you don’t even know the people.
I opened this thread because I had never heard the term “pick puppy” before. I love dogs but know very little besides breeds and some standards, and this thread is teaching me a lot. I enjoy watching Westminster every year. I am trying to picture this puppy of this litter you are talking about. I have loved a lot of dogs in my life, some purebreds, some not, just haven’t had one of my own since I was about 10 (a German Shepherd-Chow Chow mix).
Just will add that I think you have a great bumper sticker idea for your showing vehicle: WAITING FOR BITE AND TESTICLES.
I would love to see reactions to that on other drivers’ faces!
I hope you will make the decision YOU want to make regarding the puppy/stud fee and that if you do pick the puppy you will post pics for us to see. :yes: :encouragement:
I’d probably just go for the stud fee instead, especially since you’re planning to keep a girl next year.
I have no personal experience in such matters, but I wouldn’t co-own. I would either take your pick male puppy outright or your stud fee.
Co-ownership is for the breeder’s protection. The breeder’s kennel name is on the puppy. By retaining co-ownership, the breeder has to sign for litter registration, so still has some say-so about who he can be bred to, and in what direction that branch of pedigrees can go with the kennel name.
We sell VERY few. Those only to people we have known for a good while. Our kennel name will never be found on a backyard or puppy mill pedigree.
For full registration, we not only keep co-ownership, but also a breeding or puppy back. It’s common at the top of our breed.
We have never taken a puppy back for breeding to one of our males. We don’t require co-ownership for a stud breeding, but we only breed to females we like, owned by other breeders that we know share our care and philosophy about the breed. 2k up front. Breeding back if less than 2 puppies in the litter.
[QUOTE=Tom King;8217716]
Co-ownership is for the breeder’s protection. The breeder’s kennel name is on the puppy. By retaining co-ownership, the breeder has to sign for litter registration, so still has some say-so about who he can be bred to, and in what direction that branch of pedigrees can go with the kennel name.
We sell VERY few. Those only to people we have known for a good while. Our kennel name will never be found on a backyard or puppy mill pedigree.
For full registration, we not only keep co-ownership, but also a breeding or puppy back. It’s common at the top of our breed.
We have never taken a puppy back for breeding to one of our males. We don’t require co-ownership for a stud breeding, but we only breed to females we like, owned by other breeders that we know share our care and philosophy about the breed. 2k up front. Breeding back if less than 2 puppies in the litter.[/QUOTE]
Hey, I agree with everything you’ve said, with this exception:
Generally I would agree to another breeding if there were no puppies or a singleton, with no fee, except if it was a dead frozen dog.
I have known lots of other breeders who, if the breeding was to a deceased male, they would charge the whole stud fee at the time the semen is shipped.
In theory, I agree with this. There is no more of this dog’s semen.
However, I must admit, in the case of someone who used my dog many years ago with great results, and who wanted to use frozen semen from this dog, I could not find it in my heart to charge her other than semen shipping charges.
She was in Canada, so more of a bother, semen arrived in great shape, but I knew all the costs incurred with all the progesterone/LH testing, the cost of surgical insemination, shipping the semen, etc. so I did not charge a stud fee for this particular person.
But, in general, I do think it is not unfair to charge the full stud service amount for a dead frozen dog.
Thanks everyone - you’ve convinced me that there really is nothing in it for me to co-own so I will either choose my pick or take the stud fee. I’ll wait until I can really evaluate the litter but my thought is that I’ll probably take a stud fee.
I like this breeder a lot and his family has been well known in the breed for…gosh, 60 years or more? I’m not sure. He knows what he’s doing, so I will trust him to place puppies and manage that end of things…and I will be able to vicariously enjoy every puppy from afar with no strings attached.
But, even if I knew the other person really well…I still don’t know that there is enough incentive to co-own my pick rather than have them buy from the breeder. Not at the moment. And the bitch is rather young, so if this litter is amazing, maybe we would consider a repeat.
Thanks for your advice! I’ll post puppy pictures when the litter is born!
[QUOTE=Tom King;8217716]
Co-ownership is for the breeder’s protection. [/QUOTE]
I totally agree; just clarifying that I’m not the breeder, and I have no kennel name. So, a co-ownership with me doesn’t do anything, really. The breeder is planning to co-own the pick female and place it with a breed back contract…which makes perfect sense.
This was more of a suggestion that a co-ownership would be a way to “own” a great puppy, even though I am not ready for another dog. But…I’m not sure it makes sense for me.
Thanks for your input!
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