Having spent the weekend with the lovely, sweet Fat Chicks (the attached photo shows one of the pairs we got to drive), I keep picturing my 10.2 hand pony all decked out in a little collar & hames.
I know they MAKE collars & hames for ponies, but would I ever really want them, other than for the cuteness factor? (And the fact that I would actually be able to get them on him without worrying about landing square on my tush :D)
actually, using a collar and hames for ponies is “better” than a breast collar as it allows them to pull easier. Larger bearing surface for pulling and allows them to really use their whole shoulder into the push, rather than a thinner strap that’s just in the front.
The issue with collars is the fit, most will require two collars for different times of year and level of fitness. A bad fitting collar is really bad. It can be difficult and daunting to get a proper fitting collar if you do not have someone local to fit for you, or a friend with multiple collars to try on.
Which is why breast collars are very popular. The best option? Maybe not, but easier to fit, will fit multiple ponies and any time of the year/level of fitness, etc.
If you like the look, i suggest you order from a pony company that can help you the most with the sizing. Ponies of this size can be a real pain to fit. Heck, ponies of larger size can be a real pain to fit! Just spent a few months getting the right fit for my 13h pony!
http://www.minitack.com/mwtdh.htm
hijack
BFZ:
nice link!
Were these folks able to fit your 13h pony?
I notice their Shetland measurement only goes to 48".
I may be able to rob the piggybank for a working harness for my ~12h+? (gotta measure with something other than my chestheight) at these prices.
no, i ordered from Country Carriages USA, so i have a bio Yonnies harness for my 13h girl, and my 14h girl. The 13h pony i had to make a pattern bridle from strapping and duct tape to get the right proportions since measurements werent working right and send that straight to Yonnies to get a proper fitting bridle. And her first harness was an older yonnies that didnt want to fit right in multiple places.
The Ozark Mountain people are great. I’ve bought from them when i had my large mini. They WILL make larger pony pieces if you contact them, some of their harnesses come in pony sizes, not just mini A and B, as they cater to shetlands as well. Good company, quality work on the harnesses.
The choice of collar and hames vs breast collar harness depends greatly on the vehicle you intend to use. The goal should be to achieve the best angle of draft for your horse or pony. A good article on this subject is: http://204.101.242.56/pdf/BalancedDraught.pdf
Thanks, everyone! Some really good info here.
What about padding under the collar? Is it necessary? Is it a good idea?
For most the padding built into the collar is sufficient.
No padding should be needed for the correctly fitted collar.
You will sometimes see pads under collars, usually horses doing heavy work. It can get quite expensive to have a couple collars for each animal as they go from spring roundness to the fit equine of summer, in a working program. Padded collars are not the desired fit you want on a carriage horse.
This would be the same line of thinking that you don’t add the big fuzzy pads on your driving harness. They actually don’t help, since they crush under weight from shafts, pulling into the breastcollar. Still Pad Sets continue to sell well, add color to the turnout
Harness should fit comfortably and correctly, on the horse. The synthetic padding of many CDE horses is usually quite thin, made of a textured synthetic fabric, more of a protective layer from the harness edges cutting in, with the kind of moves needed in doing Hazards and cross country work. They should not affect the harness fit, not correcting for looseness.
You want to pay close attention in getting the animal used to his collar, it is really easy to “burn” their shoulders. This can come from friction of the collar on the thin skin just walking along. And it can happen FAST. You will know this horse has burned, by the tight wrinkling of skin under the collar. You may want to give some time off from the collar, wash down the shoulders with salty water, hoping to encourage skin thickening. He may slough off the burned skin, be a bit bald there for a time.
You will also need to clean the inside of the full collar after each outing, so there is no dirt layer to rub new holes into him. Any bit of dirt will feel like a bit of sand in your own shoe, you think they are cobble stones when rubbing on you.
Pony cuteness is a high priority :lol: but pony’s comfort and ability to do his job in the most efficient manner is slightly higher.
One of my ponies was started in collar and hames and I used a thin pad under his collar back then. Don’t know that it was really necessary for a proper-fitting collar but it made me feel better. I’ve used breast-collar harness for the past several years and have no need to pad the breast collar as it is self-padded but I do use a ‘pillow pad’ under the harness saddles. The pillow pads are really nice. They’re unobtrusive but I do think they have some welcome shock-absorbing qualities. I got them from Camptown Harness-don’t know if she makes them for neck collars or not: http://camptownharness.com/index.php?pg=Harness%20Pads
Again, the most important factor in whether you go with collar and hames or the breast-collar style of harness should be the vehicle you intend to use. If you are going to be driving a ‘Meadowbrook’ style cart with horizontal shafts and a horizontal trace attachment to the singletree, a neck collar is likely not the best choice for your pony when in draft. If you are going to drive a vehicle with axle draft (lowered trace attachments) then collar and hames may be appropriate. If all you plan to do is noodle around the field a time or two and call it a day you can probably use whatever you like but if your pony is going to do anything in the way of real work then you should consider the best angle of draft for him. You’ll be rewarded with a sound, happy pony for years to come. :yes:
Wanted to add… If you are using a vehicle with straight shafts, you may not be able to use a full collar as the shaft tips may hit the collar. I cant totally agree that a full collar shouldnt be used with a cart if the draft line is a straight line… A gig with swan neck shafts is historically accurate with a full collar… It truely has not been until the past 30yrs or so that a breast collar harness gained in popularity, likely thanks to us Americans who want it all at bottom dollar prices and ease of use.
I’m not the authority on full collar use by any means, but i do know a few pony people that use them with their carts and in CDEs and pleasure shows. I know their ponies pull better for it and have much better freedom in the shoulders in them vs a breast collar.
You also have the shaped/super V/freedom/comfy fit breast collars with the adjustable point of draft… I have one harness like this. Do i say it’s just as good as a full collar? no. Is my line of draft proper for whichever vehicle i use it on? Yes.
So i still say that a proper fitting collar allows the horse to pull easier. I know a mini person that competes with several mini singles/pairs/teams that swears by using a collar, no matter her vehicle… Simply because the minis have an easier time pulling in that vs a thinner breast collar harness which can and does “pinch” and impede the shoulders as the legs move forward.
This is going to be worse than saddle fitting, isn’t it?
:sigh::sigh::sigh:
Yes, it is. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: A million times worse.
Might I suggest the book Understanding Harness by Barb Lee.
It is worth every nickle as she was a fantastic harness maker and innovator.
[QUOTE=Risk-Averse Rider;6236721]
This is going to be worse than saddle fitting, isn’t it?
:sigh::sigh::sigh:[/QUOTE]
:lol: I struggled with fitting a dressage saddle to my cob for 4yrs and gave up… The first harness i bought her fit her perfect, the second was a no go, but her third and current one also fit her perfect right out of the box. My mini went through 3 harnesses to get the perfect fit. My little 13h girl is on her second harness, first had several fit issues, this one was made for her, so aside from some proportion issues on the bridle which was fixed promptly by the maker at no additional charge to me, i didnt really have issues.
I’m too chicken to buy a full collar cause it’s a big investment and i would need a couple of them depending on fitness/time of year, etc… And mostly because of fit. I would LOVE to have one, dont get me wrong, i’m just a chicken. 
I dont personally know people with collars in the sizes i would need them in to try on my ponies.
But really, if you go with a good known harness dealer, measure carefully, discuss with them your wants and needs, you should get close to perfect with the first go. It’s those that try to cut costs and go with cheaper stuff that tend to have a lot of issues. So dont worry. Personally, it’s been a lot easier for me than saddle fit!
Now, i’ll have you know that after i gave up dressage and started driving, i’ve bought 2 saddles, one dressage, one close contact, both brand new from the tack store without trying on my ponies or sitting in it myself and both fit perfect… What are the odds of that? Doesnt make me want to get back into competitive dressage at all, but does frustrate the heck out of me that i give it up and the perfect saddle falls in my lap a year later?!
RAR -
I’m currently sitting outside in the lovely sunshine, getting a nice sunburn (I’m sure) while cleaning a beautiful leather pairs harness with full collars for our first (driving club) picnic drive of the season. Hubby does the brass hames (I hate polishing brass although I love the gleaming look afterwards), while I have the patten leather collars under my charge. Skidmore’s Leather Cream for the leather side, and Windex for the patten side - and they come out gorgeous. My pair will sparkle trotting down the road.
Frankly, the collars aren’t that expensive - or, they weren’t when I bought these. It is the hames that set you back a pretty penny.
I will admit, however, I’m being very tempted (in my old age) of looking into a nice synthetic (Zilco) harness for casual everyday driving. I’ve gotten spoiled being able to toss my endurance tack into the washer and have it come out spotlessly clean and gleaming. This leather cleaning by hand ain’t a lotta fun no more.
By far the best collars, esp the smaller ones are from Coblentz Collar, 330 893 3858, ask for Marion and tell him Marjean told you to call.
They sell a collar measuring device that costs about $20 including shipping that is FABULOUS and will save you that much in shipping if you don’t get the right measurement the first time and have to send it back. It not only measures the length but also the width at the top and bottom, and they will custom make it to those 3 measurements for no extra charge.
If someone needs to measure for a collar in the Aiken area, I have one and am happy to let you use it.
Fit with neck collars is absolutely critical and I see at least as many poorly fit ones as correct ones, which is why I am pretty firm about telling people not to use one unless they know how to properly fit one.
Gothedistance- We need pics of that gleaming pair so we can drool at all that cleaning! 
However, i wanted to comment on the Zilcos. They offer some features that i like, but if you havent touched their bridles and strapping, you might want to before you purchase. I found them to be very stiff and plastic like. I much prefer the yonnies deluxe or camptowns that offer softer padding and much more pliable strapping. I liked the zilco empathy collar in person, i just wish the rest of the harness was made with nicer feeling materials. I will say though, i was really wanting to get leather this last harness and then chickened out just cause of clean up! It is SO nice just to hose it on the pony, take it off, and let it drip dry… Though one of my beta/bi yonnies has brass… I do need to sit down and polish that here soon! Which of course, i had to sell the brass cart it went with and now have two vehicles with stainless… Figures!
Wish i had the funds for collars Marjean, i would borrow your collar measuring tool, but i’m strapped, no more equipment for me this year, or next! Thanks for the tip on Jimmy Parlier for transport btw, he’s picking up my cob pony in OK next week. 
Sorry for the total thread hijack here…
And you shall have them, bfz, after the drive on Sunday. Hubby just finished the last hame today - with much muttering and grumbling about not being able to polish adequately (the trace buckles) because (quote) the darn things won’t come apart (unquote) meaning: the leather straps to the saddle and the girth were in his way. :lol: Tomorrow he will do the brass on the bridles, then I’ll put the harness back together, make sure each pony is fitted, then hang the harness in the trailer so we’re good to go. I just have to pull the near pony’s mane - the far pony is already done and looking very “hunter show ring”. Welsh can certainly go in long manes, but I do love the look of a sleek hand-pulled short hunter mane.
Found over the years that keeping sheets/blankets on the ponies is one fabulous way of retaining a gorgeous, deeply colored coat, too, especially since mine are out 24/7.
I’ve felt the Zilco before - and yes, it did feel too much like plastic. 
That’s why I still have 100% leather (and brass) hanging on my tack room walls. Plus 5 neck collars at last count - two horse sized (from when we used to drive Thoroughbreds) and 3 pony sized. I may have to check out the Camptown harness, tho - would be nice if I can find some up at Martin’s at the end of the month…
Please visit Aiken GTD, my B welsh mare really needs someone with some good mane skills! I attacked it over the winter but now have thick and multiple lengths which results in a Mohawk… She lives in training braids. I’m taking her to the NC welsh show next month and I’m afraid of how I’ll mess it up worse before then!
Have fun at Martins! I meant to go in the fall, I was only an hour away, but had to photograph an inspection so it blew my plans. One year!
Arrrgghhh… so many options!
Maybe the pony needs to remain just an occasional lead-line pony
Although… I had a blast today driving Gail (19-year-old spotted draft) in a Meadowbrook… we even trotted a few times, and had a couple strides of canter going up a little hill. I had to ask her owner if she had indeed cantered a bit, because it was so smooth a transition.
And we did 180 degree turns - discovered that she gees around with a lot more grace than she haws around (although she does both directions willingly).
I loff Gail :yes:
(N.B. I did not drive by myself - the trainer got out at one point for a photo op.)
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