I wonder if BNT and owners will be checking their staff for wires and recording devices. What do you think TMZ would pay for clips of celeb horses getting their daily meds (with smiling billionaire patting Flicka in the next clip)?
[QUOTE=supershorty628;8303464]
For those wondering why COTH posted pictures of Inclusive from yesterday, here’s my guess:
COTH is in the business of covering events at horse shows, they couldn’t exactly shun the winner of the class.
You may not like it, but I don’t think they’re making a statement one way or the other - just covering the events of the class.[/QUOTE]
Aren’t there other winners who would appreciate having their photo featured by COTH ?
Please, let’s keep our eye on the ball, and not make this about rich/not rich.
Drugging horses is an equal opportunity issue.
I’ve had little confidence in any of BP’s horses for a long time. When you make the decision to stay with a trainer that is caught multiple times with bad tests, it casts doubt on the legitimacy of all your horses.
[QUOTE=oldernewbie;8303918]
Oh I think that’s the easiest thing in the world to do. I used to give my horse a 2cc injection every week and I’m a klutz. So here’s how I think it would go - you carry the filled and capped hypodermic in a pocket, walk along side the horse, maybe have someone in front, back, and maybe side of you, pull the hypo out, stick horse in front of the shoulder, takes only a second to administer medicine, cap the hypo and put it in your pocket.
As I say, I have no vet tech experience at all and I got really good at it and quick. BC sounds like a virtuoso so I imagine this was not a challenge at all.
This assumes of course that GABA is given IM. IV would not be so easy!
(Just for the record, the shot was for my horse’s melanoma, definitely not performance enhancing and certainly didn’t affect his penchant for spooking at all. Plus we were at home, not at a show.)
ETA: Realized today that poor Inclusive probably started gobbling after all that tryptophan. Amazing he could even finish a round. :mad::(:no:[/QUOTE]
I’m no expert, and I haven’t read all 21 pages, so this may have been mentioned, but if the substance was given 7 minutes out, I’m pretty sure it would have to be IV to take effect in that time frame. That said, I recently took a horse to have his teeth done and the vet walked by and injected him IV almost without stopping. If it’s something you do every day…
Is using calming medication/supplements abuse or poor sportsmanship?
I am having trouble seeing at as abuse.
I can definitely see it as poor sportsmanship/lost priorities.
Soring I can see as abuse, as is blocking a tail, but I think the medication rules are more about having a level playing field than about abuse (other than the few medications that are dangerous).
I witnessed a horse getting an IV injection on the bridle path on the way to WEF (last day of the last week) by its groom/handler walking it to the show. This stuff happens all the time. Its time to bring the hammer down, Im tired of watching horses suffer…
[QUOTE=CHT;8304158]
Is using calming medication/supplements abuse or poor sportsmanship?
I am having trouble seeing at as abuse.
I can definitely see it as poor sportsmanship/lost priorities.
Soring I can see as abuse, as is blocking a tail, but I think the medication rules are more about having a level playing field than about abuse (other than the few medications that are dangerous).[/QUOTE]
If its intended to affect performance then its illegal – not just poor sportsmanship or lost priorities
[QUOTE=juststartingout;8304167]
If its intended to affect performance then its illegal – not just poor sportsmanship or lost priorities[/QUOTE]
No, it isn’t illegal. It is against the rules of showing. Nobody is getting arrested for using a calming supplement like PP.
But people have posted previously that this is abuse, and I am curious of many feel that way, or just feel that it is cheating.
[QUOTE=Mardi;8304125]
Please, let’s keep our eye on the ball, and not make this about rich/not rich.
Drugging horses is an equal opportunity issue.[/QUOTE]
I think it is about the very rich. Is anyone out there worried about offending the owner with one horse who may only go to a few recognized shows per year and doesn’t do WEF or indoors? I doubt it. Are there people who would worry about losing someone like Betsee Parker from the horse scene? I’m sure there are. Just look at the number of horses she owns and the money that it must cost in training, boarding, and showing. In addition, if someone were to come down hard on her, she almost certainly has the funds needed to hire a good lawyer and fight any charges, etc. Not so for the small owner necessarily.
[QUOTE=equisusan;8303838]
More than anything I am just so saddened by all of this. I coveted Inclusive and now I wonder what he’s really like. Couldn’t he be himself and still be sensational? And doesn’t it get boring posing for photo after photo when you knew you were cheating?
Hunters are my first love and I’ve been doing them since I was 13… so 40yrs with some breaks here and there. I hate when my discipline is soiled by these types of actions and people.[/QUOTE]
But you have been doing this sport for 40 years with sportsmanship, horsemanship and honesty.
For as disheartened as I am over this whole thing, I am relishing every comment like yours. A dying breed isn’t extinct. There is hope.
[QUOTE=CHT;8304183]
No, it isn’t illegal. It is against the rules of showing. Nobody is getting arrested for using a calming supplement like PP.
But people have posted previously that this is abuse, and I am curious of many feel that way, or just feel that it is cheating.[/QUOTE]
We can quibble about wording – it is specifically in violation of the rules of the USEF --not allowed, prohibited
[QUOTE=CHT;8304158]
Is using calming medication/supplements abuse or poor sportsmanship?
I am having trouble seeing at as abuse.
I can definitely see it as poor sportsmanship/lost priorities.
.[/QUOTE]
It’s certainly abuse of those owners and riders who are competing on clean and sober horses. If there are any of those.
[QUOTE=Long Spot;8304224]
But you have been doing this sport for 40 years with sportsmanship, horsemanship and honesty.
For as disheartened as I am over this whole thing, I am relishing every comment like yours. A dying breed isn’t extinct. There is hope.[/QUOTE]
Thank you. Yes I have and I have many friends who do as well. We are not a dying breed but I feel like those who don’t like or appreciate our discipline paint us all with the same nasty brush. It isn’t so.
[QUOTE=CHT;8304158]
Is using calming medication/supplements abuse or poor sportsmanship?
I am having trouble seeing at as abuse.
I can definitely see it as poor sportsmanship/lost priorities.
Soring I can see as abuse, as is blocking a tail, but I think the medication rules are more about having a level playing field than about abuse (other than the few medications that are dangerous).[/QUOTE]
I guess it all depends on what a supplement can do on or off label. If the horses who reportedly collapsed over the last year or so did so because of a supplement then heck yes it’s abuse. If it stopped a sensitive horse from getting ulcers then no probably not abuse.
I consider it abusive to turn your horse into a science experiment by using unproven/experimental, and/or unnecessary medications in copious amounts and combinations in an attempt to improve your chance of winning ribbons. Would you ever go out and inject your horse with a medication it didn’t need? What if that medication had dangerous potential side effects?
If you do a little research, you will see that many of the substances injected to calm horses without showing up on a drug test have serious potential side effects. Look up the side effects of Carolina Gold or IV magnesium. Obviously Carolina Gold is tested for now, but apparently the cheaters have become so sophisticated in its use that they think they know just about how much they can inject before the test for it is considered positive.
Is it abuse? If only the horses could tell their story.
Imagine feeling dopey and heavy-footed, and being asked to jump over some hurdles. Hurdles you do all the time in training - you are fit enough, strong enough and know how, but now you are under tremendous pressure to do it while not feeling your best. You know you could be badly hurt if you miss.
Plus the risk of being hurt putting a foot wrong, perhaps even some sting from landing a bit flat-footed and not with your usual spring.
Not to mention having the horse’s entire internal system is under the effect, then recovering, then under effect, then recovering … Both at the show and at home, as they have to test and see what has what effect (and that can change over time, so more testing).
You know the show ‘Intervention’ - I’m always struck by the marked difference in glow, health and clarity after a few weeks of rehab, compared with the addict while on drugs, generally depressed and not thinking clearly at any time. At a show, these horses’ systems are being put through what those addicts’ systems are going through … and not voluntarily.
I am sure the lack of real commitment to eliminate the drugs is at least partly from an idea that it is not really abuse … but IMO those people haven’t thought through what it is like to be the horse.
Finished watching the $500K HITS hunter derby second round on line. Sure does make a difference watching Tori on Betsee’s horse and wondering . . . . That’s the problem with cheating, once it’s done, forevermore folks wonder.
[QUOTE=kenyarider;8304299]
Finished watching the $500K HITS hunter derby second round on line. Sure does make a difference watching Tori on Betsee’s horse and wondering . . . . That’s the problem with cheating, once it’s done, forevermore folks wonder.[/QUOTE]
Exactly what baseball fans were thinking about Alex Rodriguez’s great start to the season, after he was suspended all of 2014 for Performance Enhancing Drugs.
It’s sad to think that this was a horse a lot of people liked. His jumping style is very classic, head between his knees, makes a fabulous effort at every jump. But from here on out, it will be hard to watch him without questioning if he was given something prior to entering the ring. I know none of Betsee’s other horses are involved, however, it will be hard to not to watch any of them and wonder if any of those mounts were administered something prior to them entering the ring as well. :no:
[QUOTE=Carolinadreamin’;8303771]
No one was ever found culpable for the death of Humble, correct? If his owner got away with that, I have no hope that Betsee Parker, Brigid Colvin or whoever else is associated with Inclusive will ever be punished.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, by all indications USEF was very interested in large disciplinary action in the case of Humble. What they discovered in their attempt is that the rules were insufficient to prove a case there - the pony wasn’t necropsied in a timely manner, the syringes were not available as evidence, and the rules of the time didn’t preclude a legal substance administered by injection.
Today, a horse that dies on the grounds must be necropsied immediately with results going directly to USEF, and it’s against the rules for a trainer to inject a horse less than 12 hours before a class with anything. Those two changes alone would give them something to work with if the Humble case happened again.
