Colvin Civil Suit

[QUOTE=eclipse;8305240]
^^^ I wondered if people thought I was "giving my horse something " when in actual fact I was syrynging electrolytes into his mouth (he won’t eat or drink them!) terrible that those of us who are NOT drugging feel all weirded out because of the bad seeds who do![/QUOTE]

Yes, I have felt the same way. My jumper was at the end of his omeprazole paste treatment when I was at Upperville and I was hiding in the back of his stall to give it to him because I didn’t want people to think I was being shady! It sucks.

[QUOTE=dp1092;8304690]

Does Betsee have any experience with horses besides owning them? Did she ride back in the day, etc?[/QUOTE]Last winter at one of the Horsemastership sessions GM introduced BP as his ‘oldest’ (longest standing) student.

[QUOTE=OverandOnward;8305043]

This is the genie that is out of the bottle, for the rest of Tori’s equestrian life. I wonder if BC completely understood that when she filed that suit. But I’d guess her priority was to be present at the most important junior shows of Tori’s career, coming up.

:[/QUOTE]

Although I have more thoughts on the subject, with regards to “speculation”…I DO think Tori should be left out of this.

Realistically, I DO NOT think this will impact her career a single bit. Not in the slightest.

Remember McClain getting in trouble with USEF/ASHA (dating myself here but this was a while back) - with boots and whatnot? It was decades ago probably.
Nobody speaks of that today. He admitted to “cheating”; totally outright.

How soon we all forget, though.

I feel confident this won’t follow Tori one bit

[QUOTE=lovemyboy;8305476]
Although I have more thoughts on the subject, with regards to “speculation”…I DO think Tori should be left out of this.

Realistically, I DO NOT think this will impact her career a single bit. Not in the slightest.

Remember McClain getting in trouble with USEF/ASHA (dating myself here but this was a while back) - with boots and whatnot? It was decades ago probably.
Nobody speaks of that today. He admitted to “cheating”; totally outright.

How soon we all forget, though.

I feel confident this won’t follow Tori one bit[/QUOTE]

Did McLain really admit to cheating? At the time of the incident he claimed someone had sabotaged the horses boots by putting the chips in them. I don’t think this incident will have any impact at all on Tori’s career although some (including me) will always have doubts about her now.

I’m pretty sure he did, ultimately. I’ll try to look up the article in next day or two.

[QUOTE=BAC;8305484]
I don’t think this incident will have any impact at all on Tori’s career although some (including me) will always have doubts about her now.[/QUOTE]

It won’t have any impact at all; someone else already mentioned how quickly people forget things like this, and the fact that Tori is young will help that along even more quickly than usual.

It’s funny how so many seem to forget that this team is hardly the first to get busted using GABA, but there weren’t 20+ pages of comments stringing up the previous offenders and wondering why the riders in those cases kept on showing after the busts. Except for the fact that a) Tori has ben the USEF sweetheart for years and years, b) everyone loves to hate Betsee Parker, and c) we’ve all been given the opportunity to read about what goes on behind the scenes thanks to Brigid’s civil suit. Same offense, different consequences (based on online opinion/interest).

I’m not willing to participate in this pile-on for several reasons. None of those reasons have anything to do with the idea that I think it’s okay to break the rules and drug any horse at any time. I don’t at all. All of the reasons have to do with the fact that I think every big name barn that travels the circuit all year is just as guilty as this team is guilty, they just haven’t been caught yet.

It’s naive to think that this particular team is the only one participating in this type of behavior. They all know what everyone else is doing, and they’re all doing it. Based on the suspension lists that come out on a regular basis, I can’t believe that any of them are doing it to every single horse in the barn at every single show.

To assume that every horse that Tori has walked into the show ring for the last ten years or whatever has been drugged is ridiculous. And it’s equally ridiculous to focus solely on her for this incident when it’s impossible to believe that every other barn out there showing at the same shows isn’t doing the exact same thing. They’ve just been lucky enough not to have had their turn yet.

I’m not excusing anyone involved in this particular incident, but I don’t think it helps the cause to act as though this particular team is evil and keeping them from entering the ring ever again is going to somehow fix anything. This is not the first team to be caught using this stuff, and it’s unlikely that it will be the last. The USEF needs to come up with a complete overhaul when it comes to punishments for drug infractions, and it’s not just because of this incident. It’s also because of everyone who has been lucky enough NOT to have been caught yet.

Well said, ynl.

[QUOTE=Horseshowaddict;8304159]
I witnessed a horse getting an IV injection on the bridle path on the way to WEF (last day of the last week) by its groom/handler walking it to the show. This stuff happens all the time. Its time to bring the hammer down, Im tired of watching horses suffer…[/QUOTE]

What was the result when you reported this to the horse show steward?

[QUOTE=Cannonball;8305616]
What was the result when you reported this to the horse show steward?[/QUOTE]

The stewards are hired by the horse shows. This represents a conflict of interest. Not many stewards are going to create waves for their employer. If the steward represents the federation, the federation should hire them. The whole system needs a revamp to actually protect the horses and not just talk about it out picking some relatively small time person to make an example of them while turning their backs on the bigger picture. Just another opinion.

[QUOTE=Jumphigh83;8305639]
The stewards are hired by the horse shows. This represents a conflict of interest. Not many stewards are going to create waves for their employer. If the steward represents the federation, the federation should hire them. The whole system needs a revamp to actually protect the horses and not just talk about it out picking some relatively small time person to make an example of them while turning their backs on the bigger picture. Just another opinion.[/QUOTE]

Are you suggesting that when Cannonball saw a horse getting stuck, she would have been reasonable not to report it to a steward? Employed by whomever, it’s really, really the steward’s job to handle stuff like that.

To act otherwise is to participate in the problem. You can’t blame the USEF for bad policing if membership decides to not use the stewards the USEF requires be in place to insure fair play.

And the show that gains the reputation for looking the other way so as to allow cheaters who don’t mind risking USEF sanction would, if bad enough, start to lose exhibitors. I don’t want to show against cheaters. I really don’t want to show against cheaters if it’s so bad/rampant that I have to risk getting caught in a “beat 'em or join 'em” scenario set up by a show that welcomes cheaters.

[QUOTE=ynl063w;8305507]
It won’t have any impact at all; someone else already mentioned how quickly people forget things like this, and the fact that Tori is young will help that along even more quickly than usual.

It’s funny how so many seem to forget that this team is hardly the first to get busted using GABA, but there weren’t 20+ pages of comments stringing up the previous offenders and wondering why the riders in those cases kept on showing after the busts. Except for the fact that a) Tori has ben the USEF sweetheart for years and years, b) everyone loves to hate Betsee Parker, and c) we’ve all been given the opportunity to read about what goes on behind the scenes thanks to Brigid’s civil suit. Same offense, different consequences (based on online opinion/interest).

I’m not willing to participate in this pile-on for several reasons. None of those reasons have anything to do with the idea that I think it’s okay to break the rules and drug any horse at any time. I don’t at all. All of the reasons have to do with the fact that I think every big name barn that travels the circuit all year is just as guilty as this team is guilty, they just haven’t been caught yet.

It’s naive to think that this particular team is the only one participating in this type of behavior. They all know what everyone else is doing, and they’re all doing it. Based on the suspension lists that come out on a regular basis, I can’t believe that any of them are doing it to every single horse in the barn at every single show.

To assume that every horse that Tori has walked into the show ring for the last ten years or whatever has been drugged is ridiculous. And it’s equally ridiculous to focus solely on her for this incident when it’s impossible to believe that every other barn out there showing at the same shows isn’t doing the exact same thing. They’ve just been lucky enough not to have had their turn yet.

I’m not excusing anyone involved in this particular incident, but I don’t think it helps the cause to act as though this particular team is evil and keeping them from entering the ring ever again is going to somehow fix anything. This is not the first team to be caught using this stuff, and it’s unlikely that it will be the last. The USEF needs to come up with a complete overhaul when it comes to punishments for drug infractions, and it’s not just because of this incident. It’s also because of everyone who has been lucky enough NOT to have been caught yet.[/QUOTE]

There is more interest in this case because they are the highest profile team to get caught. Tori gets the most media attention, and it’s absurd to think her indiscretions (or those of her team) won’t also get significant attention. Note the number of people condemning her increased on this thread compared to the prior related thread, due to the transcript release, I’m certain. After reading that transcript, I disagree with you that it’s ridiculous to assume every horse she sat on for 10 years was drugged, I think it’s a reasonable conclusion to reach. And sorry, but I’m not willing to turn my head simply because everyone may be doing it.

A high profile case is more likely to bring reform than news of the trainer out of Oregon that nobody knows. This case presents great opportunity for change if enough people (and publications) are willing to talk about it and not let it get swept under the rug.

If the NYTimes would publish the same sort of story on this as they did on Humble’s death, the USEF would do something. But not likely without that.

[QUOTE=busylady;8305691]
There is more interest in this case because they are the highest profile team to get caught. Tori gets the most media attention, and it’s absurd to think her indiscretions (or those of her team) won’t also get significant attention. Note the number of people condemning her increased on this thread compared to the prior related thread, due to the transcript release, I’m certain.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for repeating exactly what I said in my post.

In order to reach this conclusion, you would also have to believe that this was the first time any horse Tori has ever shown was tested. Believe that if you want to, but I have a hard time imagining that to be true.

Where in the entire 25 pages of this thread has anyone suggested turning heads from the issue?

Again, you are repeating what I said in my post. I simply added the fact that this is not all about this one incident, it is also about everyone else who is doing the exact same thing but hasn’t gotten caught yet.

I’m not sure what the purpose of your post is, or why you quoted mine.

[QUOTE=BAC;8305484]
Did McLain really admit to cheating? At the time of the incident he claimed someone had sabotaged the horses boots by putting the chips in them. I don’t think this incident will have any impact at all on Tori’s career although some (including me) will always have doubts about her now.[/QUOTE]

Ward has maintained his innocence regarding the plastic chips-in-boots incident and there is definitely an air of conspiracy with that case, similar to Sapphire’s disqualification from the World Cup(?) a few years ago. Both he and Lee McIver submitted themselves to polygraphs, too, after the chip incident. He ended up being suspended by AHSA as part of the reciprocity and I think he plead no contest to being the person responsible for his horse’s care, but stated at the hearing that he did not place anything in the horse’s boots.

[QUOTE=mvp;8305665]
Are you suggesting that when Cannonball saw a horse getting stuck, she would have been reasonable not to report it to a steward? Employed by whomever, it’s really, really the steward’s job to handle stuff like that.

To act otherwise is to participate in the problem. You can’t blame the USEF for bad policing if membership decides to not use the stewards the USEF requires be in place to insure fair play.

And the show that gains the reputation for looking the other way so as to allow cheaters who don’t mind risking USEF sanction would, if bad enough, start to lose exhibitors. I don’t want to show against cheaters. I really don’t want to show against cheaters if it’s so bad/rampant that I have to risk getting caught in a “beat 'em or join 'em” scenario set up by a show that welcomes cheaters.[/QUOTE]

No. I’m suggesting that most employees don’t bite the hand that feeds them. I recently pointed out to officials a horse that was lunging in ninety degree 90% humidity for 55 minutes ( minimum) The horse was plainly exhausted. What happened? Nothing. Yes, they stopped the lunging but after the animal went back to the barn, that was the end of it. I’m suggesting that stewards are afraid to step up for fear of not working ever again, and that’s a reasonable fear. Anyone at a horse show that sees abuse of afraid of the repercussions. Nobody wants to be “that” person and you WILL be ostracized.

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8305722]
If the NYTimes would publish the same sort of story on this as they did on Humble’s death, the USEF would do something. But not likely without that.[/QUOTE]
If the 60 minutes crew shows up at WEF, 2016 will be the wildest winter ever.

It’s the federation’s JOB to enforce their rules and welfare stance NOT the exhibitors.

The NYT article plainly didn’t change much as evidenced BY the current situation!

[QUOTE=Cannonball;8305616]
What was the result when you reported this to the horse show steward?[/QUOTE]

If it happened on a “bridle path on the way to WEF” there would not have been a steward, USEF has no jurisdiction off the property. It’s a hobby club, no subpoena power or any authority off the show grounds or even on them on a non show day.

Just sayin…

Not necessarily… They may have been successful in giving the amount that won’t test. BC seemed well versed in that routine and it seemed that the problem they had with her is that she gave “too much” not that she gave it.