I vote that we do not knock a young rider who is very much a product of her upbringing and has been exposed to no other way. Instead let’s start a petition that she is allowed a Rumspringa with John and Beezie Madden. #JMSspringa!
Remember in The Goblet of Fire when Mad Eye Moody describes Fleur Delacour as being “as much of a fairy princess as I am”? I think these young riders whose horses are drugged have to be set down with the trainer and the horse. Only if the parties concerned know that it means the end of a magic team will they stop. Setting down just the trainer is a joke. If that is a hard knock to a kid who perhaps - and it is a huge perhaps - has noooo idea their horse has been drugged - never saw ten tubes of PP, syringes, or a big knot on the horse’s neck – I mean come on. If that is a hard knock to that young rider than so be it. Competing in the Maclays and Derby finals etc is a privilege. It shouldn’t be cheapened by those rider,owner,parent,trainer teams willing to do anything to win. No one says a student who plagiarizes a paper should be excused because she is “a product” of upbringing. Of course it can’t be proven, but it is as likely that she didn’t know the horse was drugged as it is that I, well, am a fairy princess. These young riders are pros in every sense of the word.
Perhaps we could compare her to Draco Malfoy who was indoctrinated as a Slytherin by his gruesome parents? Just can’t remember if he got redeemed at the end or not.
[QUOTE=nutmeg;8311925]
Perhaps we could compare her to Draco Malfoy who was indoctrinated as a Slytherin by his gruesome parents? Just can’t remember if he got redeemed at the end or not.[/QUOTE]
Draco couldn’t bring himself to kill Dumbledore in the end…
The thing is that isn’t necessarily the trainer who gets set down. Not the trainer in the real sense of the word. Sometimes it’s a groom who signs as the “trainer” in order to protect the person doing the actual training of horse and/or rider.
[QUOTE=carroal;8311903]
Remember in The Goblet of Fire when Mad Eye Moody describes Fleur Delacour as being “as much of a fairy princess as I am”? I think these young riders whose horses are drugged have to be set down with the trainer and the horse. Only if the parties concerned know that it means the end of a magic team will they stop. Setting down just the trainer is a joke. If that is a hard knock to a kid who perhaps - and it is a huge perhaps - has noooo idea their horse has been drugged - never saw ten tubes of PP, syringes, or a big knot on the horse’s neck – I mean come on. If that is a hard knock to that young rider than so be it. Competing in the Maclays and Derby finals etc is a privilege. It shouldn’t be cheapened by those rider,owner,parent,trainer teams willing to do anything to win. No one says a student who plagiarizes a paper should be excused because she is “a product” of upbringing. Of course it can’t be proven, but it is as likely that she didn’t know the horse was drugged as it is that I, well, am a fairy princess. These young riders are pros in every sense of the word.[/QUOTe]
[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8311963]
The thing is that isn’t necessarily the trainer who gets set down. Not the trainer in the real sense of the word. Sometimes it’s a groom who signs as the “trainer” in order to protect the person doing the actual training of horse and/or rider.[/QUOTE]
How much is this really happening? I know Andre was giving it a go, but I thought it was nipped in the bud?
[QUOTE=trubandloki;8311524]
You must be reading a different forum than I am…
Clearly people care. That is why there are endless threads on the topic right now. Lots of people care. [/QUOTE]
Then correction: nobody with any power or influence cares. I stand by that statement, because if USEF cared, if the top trainers and riders and grooms and owners cared, this wouldn’t be happening.
[QUOTE=carroal;8311903]
I think these young riders whose horses are drugged have to be set down with the trainer and the horse. Only if the parties concerned know that it means the end of a magic team will they stop. Setting down just the trainer is a joke. If that is a hard knock to a kid who perhaps - and it is a huge perhaps - has noooo idea their horse has been drugged - never saw ten tubes of PP, syringes, or a big knot on the horse’s neck – I mean come on. If that is a hard knock to that young rider than so be it. Competing in the Maclays and Derby finals etc is a privilege. It shouldn’t be cheapened by those rider,owner,parent,trainer teams willing to do anything to win. No one says a student who plagiarizes a paper should be excused because she is “a product” of upbringing. Of course it can’t be proven, but it is as likely that she didn’t know the horse was drugged as it is that I, well, am a fairy princess. These young riders are pros in every sense of the word.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely agree with this 100%.
For all those saying this particular young rider couldn’t go against mommy & trainer, she did exactly that when the trainer did attempt something she felt was wrong. So there was some line she refused to cross and wasn’t afraid to speak up for the horse in that case. So being afraid to speak up has not been the issue here.
And to the “kids” out there: learn from this. Speak up. Ask questions. If you see something shady, don’t stand for it. Silence is consent.
[QUOTE=nutmeg;8311765]
I vote that we do not knock a young rider who is very much a product of her upbringing and has been exposed to no other way. Instead let’s start a petition that she is allowed a Rumspringa with John and Beezie Madden. #JMSspringa![/QUOTE]
Understand this sentiment … but I vote we do hold people responsible. The rules are out there and available to all members. If we do not start to say that yes you are responsible for both knowing and complying with the rules to all who have the capacity to do so (obviously a 5 year child is not capable of understanding) than we will always have a way to excuse or explain away behavior that violates the rules.
[QUOTE=Anne FS;8312015]
Absolutely agree with this 100%.
For all those saying this particular young rider couldn’t go against mommy & trainer, she did exactly that when the trainer did attempt something she felt was wrong. So there was some line she refused to cross and wasn’t afraid to speak up for the horse in that case. So being afraid to speak up has not been the issue here.
And to the “kids” out there: learn from this. Speak up. Ask questions. If you see something shady, don’t stand for it. Silence is consent.[/QUOTE]
I think it’s naive to assume that Tori Colvin or any other young riders competing at that level want things to change. For all we know, those kids are the ones clamoring for better drugs and more effective calmers. They want to win just as much as anyone else who is playing the game. And I’d bet they care little about the public perception of their actions, they care much more about the circle of friends and trainers and competitors who are also showing at that level and who are as invested in the current culture as they are.
[QUOTE=2bayboys;8312043]
I think it’s naive to assume that Tori Colvin or any other young riders competing at that level want things to change. For all we know, those kids are the ones clamoring for better drugs and more effective calmers. They want to win just as much as anyone else who is playing the game. And I’d bet they care little about the public perception of their actions, they care much more about the circle of friends and trainers and competitors who are also showing at that level and who are as invested in the current culture as they are.[/QUOTE]
Want to be careful not to paint things with too broad a brush. And, in fact, it should not be about want any particular individual or group wants or does not want. Its about doing what’s right and complying with the rules. When does the message get sent that winning has no value when it is obtained unethically or in violation of the rules of the paying field.
Also, there are plenty of juniors and amateurs as well as plenty of professionals who do want things to change but feel like voices in the wilderness – and that voice was well captured in the blog in response to Molly:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/my-soap-box
But, those voices need very public support and endorsement from all to be heard.
[QUOTE=juststartingout;8312057]
Want to be careful not to paint things with too broad a brush. And, in fact, it should not be about want any particular individual or group wants or does not want. Its about doing what’s right and complying with the rules. When does the message get sent that winning has value when it is obtained unethically or in violation of the rules of the paying field.
Also, there are plenty of juniors and amateurs as well as plenty of professionals who do want things to change but feel like voices in the wilderness – and that voice was well captured in the blog in response to Molly:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/my-soap-box
But, those voices need very public support and endorsement from all to be heard.[/QUOTE]
Where is the blog written by a top level trainer with a HOTY or two in the barn who decries the current drugging culture and demands that her peers and colleagues show clean along with her? I have yet to see even one.
duplicate
[QUOTE=2bayboys;8312062]
Where is the blog written by a top level trainer with a HOTY or two in the barn who decries the current drugging culture and demands that her peers and colleagues show clean along with her? I have yet to see even one.[/QUOTE]
Agree. Better yet, why haven’t we heard from Betsee Parker, decrying the fact that her horse Inclusive has been nefariously (sure, right) drugged? She seems to have so much influence in the industry, you’d hope that she’d use that as a platform to make her beloved sport safe and clean. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=2bayboys;8312062]
Where is the blog written by a top level trainer with a HOTY or two in the barn who decries the current drugging culture and demands that her peers and colleagues show clean along with her? I have yet to see even one.[/QUOTE]
It would be lovely to have a column by a BNT – and perhaps there is one out there considering doing so and all the consequences positive and negative that would flow from that action. Still, starting by supporting professionals who do speak out in a public loudly and clearly would be one thing we can do.
[QUOTE=juststartingout;8312109]
It would be lovely to have a column by a BNT – and perhaps there is one out there considering doing so and all the consequences positive and negative that would flow from that action. Still, starting by supporting professionals who do speak out in a public loudly and clearly would be one thing we can do.[/QUOTE]
There was the article discussed in this thread:
[QUOTE=jr;8309759]
… However, you now have to put an asterisk by every hunter class she’s won in her junior career, much like the MLB players and steroids. You knew there was hanky panky going on with Scott Stewart, but some question on her horses and how widespread. Now, thanks to her Mother and this controversy, we now know it was the program. Period. Widespread and systematic. A shame really. She’s a talented young lady and completely ill served by the supposed adults in her camp.[/QUOTE]
Above two quotes … Brigid Colvin’s transcript has put the asterisk on every one of her daughter’s wins - in the minds of the public. That’s the asterisk that will never go away.
Tori has been admired and looked up to, and now that won’t be the case any more, even if everyone otherwise behaves as if the whole thing is ‘forgotten’. No one is going to be saying to a student 'go look at some videos of Tori winning the ___ Class and see how she rides it '.
Even some eventers were admiring some of Tori’s youtube rounds. Not so much the jumping style, but the way Tori could rate and find a spot with the same length of rein throughout. I saw eventers in the barn aisle, showing each other Tori videos on their cellphones because they were a poster for ‘how to ride with lightest hands’.
Well – that’s over. Forever. From this point forward we’ll assume that Tori wasn’t rating the horse, GABA or some other dope was rating the horse. How do we sort our her superb technique from the effects of the dope? Answer: we don’t even try, we throw out the baby & the bath water together.
If, at some later date, someone who is currently hibernating under a rock and doesn’t know about all this tries to show someone else how to ride with a light hand using a Tori video, they will be shot down with ‘the horse was drugged’. Based on assumption.
Assumptions are much, much harder to change than proven facts.
The BNT’s hafta be careful about that. Take a big public purity stand, and risk having some former student come out of the woodwork saying ‘hold on a minute, buddy, you were pretty free with a needle back in the day when I rode with you’.
Unless the trainer has truly been clean throughout their history, it’s a big risk to make public statements now about being on the ‘right’ side. If some clean trainers do make some statements, it will be interesting to see how others respond.
I wonder what hunt-show riding students (and student parents) who want to show clean are asking their trainers, and what the trainers are answering.
That was unclear, to me. I don’t think the author intended to be definite about that. However, right at the end, he did send his own kid to Hogwarts even though Slytherin had been disbanded. Whatever one reads into that. But didn’t he marry that creep of a girlfriend? I don’t know if Draco is an example of a reformed sinner, or not. 
[QUOTE=OverandOnward;8312261]
That was unclear, to me. I don’t think the author intended to be definite about that. However, right at the end, he did send his own kid to Hogwarts even though Slytherin had been disbanded. Whatever one reads into that. But didn’t he marry that creep of a girlfriend? I don’t know if Draco is an example of a reformed sinner, or not. :)[/QUOTE]
I’m going to watch the last scene of that last movie right now and find out.
[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;8312276]
I’m going to watch the last scene of that last movie right now and find out.[/QUOTE]
You have to read the book…
Oh, I couldn’t tell who it was by the movie. I don’t have the books to hand, so never mind. He did look reformed in the movie. Its a really cute ending, anyway.
