As it states, I am very familiar with Thoroughbreds. A horse is a Tb by being sired by and out of Tb’s.
So now I’m confused.
Example A
Horse is sired by a Hanoverian Sire who is himself sired by a full Hanoverian and out of a full Hanoverian Dam. Goes back at least 5 generations.
The horse’s dam and her lines are a complete mix of Oldenburgs and Holsteiners.
But the horse himself is considered a “FULL” Hanoverian.
Can someone explain this to me simply?
Emily
sure.
you know how people say “he is out of Unbridled’s Song”?
same thing. mix-up, confusion of applicable language, possibly not knowing anything about how stud book registries work, etc.
You’re kind of comparing apples to bananas.
Thoroughbreds are a breed registry. If it’s by a papered sire and out of a papered dam, it’s a Thoroughbred.
Most WB registries aren’t like that. They’re looking for the right TYPE. So if there’s a stallion or a mare that has the TYPE wanted, it just goes and gets approved for breeding in the other registry and TADA it’s offspring are considered Oldenburg, even though the dam was Swedish. Or whatever.
In your example, the Hanoverians liked the mare’s type enough to say “this mare meets our requirements for registering the offspring Hanoverian” and so the foal gets registered in that registry. It is Hanoverian because it’s dam met the type required.
Weird, huh? I think so too :lol:
oh - I misread - you’re asking how the horse is 100% Hano if the dam is a mix of GOV/HOL/etc? If so, Simkie explained that well. Horses can be part of multiple registries so long as they are inspected and/or meet registration requirements. Some stallions are grandfathered in after sports accomplishments as well.
I thought you were asking why someone would take the time to mention something was “Full Hanoverian”. To me that seems like an oxymoron since if it is papered Hano, it’s Hano. I see that a lot - people saying “FULL Hanoverian gelding for sale”. Seems pointless to put that extra word in there because if he’s papered Hanoverian, he’s a Hanoverian.
Thoroughbred = Breed
oldenburg/hanoverian/westfalian/kwpn/zangersheide/selle francaise/holsteiner/etc= registries.
originally these different registries referred to the location where the horses were bred. Hanoverians were from Hanover, Holsteiners were from Holstein, etc.
today we see the combinations of different regional bloodlines.
KWPN was arguably the last to kind of give up this idea as only very recently have Holsteiner-descended horses bred in Holland been registered as Holsteiners rather than KWPN.
this is just a very basic overview.
zangersheide for instance is very recent and never referred to a region.
you can look up the histories of these different registries.
remember breed =/= registry.
Thoroughbred is a breed.
Oldenburg, Hanoverian, Westfalen, (etc) are registries.
A horse can have a Hanoverian sire and an Oldenburg dam and be registered (and considered) Oldenburg.
What happens is that stallions are inspected and approved for breeding by multiple registries.
We can use De Niro as an example. He was born and registered Hanoverian. However as a stallion he was approved GOV(Oldenburg), Westfalen, Rhinelander, Hanoverian (and I think one other but I can’t remember off the top of my head). So any mare registered with the above registries could breed to De Niro and the subsequent foal is eligible for the dam’s registry. (This is also how you can see horses with a thoroughbred sire in a warmblood registry. Thoroughbred stallions can get approved for breeding - Prince Thatch and Lauries Crusador are two of the big TB stallions that come to mind that are fairly recent.)
Clear as mud, right? :lol:
OK so follow up question…
Do the dams get approved by the registry before having foals? IE… if they didn’t their foals wouldn’t be eligible to be recognized as Registry X’s breed? But could possibly be recorded as a Registry Y animal.
Ok so this begs a bigger question… Are horses registered as Hanoverian, Trakehner, or Holsteiner possibly all the same actual breed but with different registries? I mean if the same Dam who produced the “Full” Hanoverian then produced a “Trakehner” the two foals would be half siblings but if Dam’s are approved by multiple registries, I am more than a bit confused as to what breed the foals are.
(Still stuck in the TB and Canine Labrador thinking)
The dam in question here has been bred to:
Holsteiners
Oldenburgs
&
Hanoverians.
A mostly confused Emily
In registry inspections tend to be done prior to foaling. For instance, I have a Holsteiner mare, she did her mare inspections for AHHA as a three year old, which is quite common.
Most non-Holsteiner mares will do their inspections with their Holsteiner foals.
This is true of a number of registries.
then you have registries like KWPN as an example where certain mon-kwpn mares will be “erkend” and not require inspection or re-inspection.
stallions go through stallion approvals that may or may not, in addition to pedigree, garner them approved status in multiple registries.
there are various performance qualifications and/or approvals.
For instance my Olympian has two stallions who did not do any sort of stallion testing but both are approved via sport for various registries due to their international show jumping careers in combination with their own pedigrees.
Trakheners are a separate issue. They are considered a “breed”, despite allowing the approved blood of Arabians and AAs and tbs.
and no, warmbloods aren’t all the same breed because they aren’t a breed.
Yup, people usually want to get their mares inspected and approved in the registry before they breed. Otherwise, they might be stuck with an unregistered foal if the registry of choice says “thanks but nope.”
Ok so this begs a bigger question… Are horses registered as Hanoverian, Trakehner, or Holsteiner possibly all the same actual breed but with different registries? I mean if the same Dam who produced the “Full” Hanoverian then produced a “Trakehner” the two foals would be half siblings but if Dam’s are approved by multiple registries, I am more than a bit confused as to what breed the foals are.
A horse can only be REGISTERED in one registry, but APPROVED in several. A single mare could produce foals registered in various registries. Hell, the same sire/dam combo could produce full sibling foals that are registered in different registries, as long as the sire and dam are approved in those registries.
Weird, huh?
The dam was in one way or another entered into the mare books of various registries. She was bred to stallions who were approved for whatever registries, and the foals were recorded in registry where both parents were approved.
Dear a mostly confused Emily,
mentioning trakehners actually throws a(nother) wrench in things I’m afraid!
Traks have a (mostly closed) book. Only Trak horses are approved for trak breeding with a few exceptions (TB and… Anglo Arabians? I think are the two). I am not a trak person so hopefully someone will correct me if I’m wrong. It would not be technically incorrect to consider trakehner as a breed.
Aren’t registries fun!
Mares do need to be approved for breeding - and not every mare is eligible for inspection. Rules vary between registries IIRC. Some also have reciprocity, to further convolute things. This is how you’ll see a foal from a TB dam bred to a WB stallion have a registerable foal. They take the mare to a registry inspection (and it has to be a registry the stallion is approved for if they want the foal to be registered) and get her approved as well.
Using my mare as an example.
Holsteiner.
approved for breeding with Holstein.
if bred to a Holsteiner licensed stallion, the foal would be registered Holsteiner.
approved for breeding with KWPN because her sire was licensed in Germany.
if bred to a KWPN licensed stallion, the foal would be registered with kwpn.
she would need to be inspected and entered into the mare book of hanoverian and Oldenburg, for example.
if bred to a hanoverian licensed stallion, the foal would be registered with hanoverian.
this would normally be done alongside a foal who was being inspected for registration with Hanoverian or Oldenburg registries because there’s not really a reason to inspect her without needing the inspection to register the foal.
Ok I think I am getting this. Trakehner throw in was an honest mistake… who knew??? LOL
Ok so the horse is a warmblooded horse. It is registered with the Hanoverian registry.
It’s sire is also registered with the Hanoverian registry and it’s mother is registered with the Oldenburg registry.
So if I include “registry” and exclude the term “breed” from my mind we’ll be good.
I suppose I better get this right since I now own this horse. 
Em
Congratulations! Out of curiousity, do you know her pedigree? It’s always fun to see how the registries pop up and where a line might change in them!
It’s a “He” and I do but for reasons that I don’t know… he’s not listed on Hippomundo nor Horse Telex. He does have papers and he matches his microchip number so not worried it’s a different horse.
I added him to All breed for easier use. He does have a 7 yr old full brother who is competing in the jumpers as well.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/el+cuador
Here’s a video of him playing with big jumps at our request. Rider is his now previous owner. (Though he gets on the plane next weds)
His job is to help me to learn to jump courses above 1.15. I think it’s safe to say he can do that. (Second half of video jumps went up to 1.35)
Em
Everyone else has done a good job of explaining this… but another wrinkle on the idea of a horse being considered a “full” Hanoverian is that both the sire and dam were approved for Hanoverian breeding, this baby has “full” papers from the Hanoverian registry.
The Horse you describe has a dam who is a registered Oldenburg. If that mare was inspected and approved for Hanoverian breeding, then that’s perhaps why the horse is being described as a “full Hanoverian.” Just to emphasize that both mare and sire were approved Hanoverians, and the horse has full papers from the Hanoverian registry, not just a certificate of pedigree.
Looks like a nice guy, and a nice pedigree. Congrats! He’ll be a lot of fun.
Very nice! Seller seems like a great quiet rider, and the horse has a really pleasant expression, seems nicely balanced, consistent, and well trained. Good for you - enjoy him 
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