Hello
What is the norm for commission on a horse that doesn’t belong to you but you helped sell?
Thanks!
“norm” is an agreed upon percentage or amount Before the transaction…from your post appears the sell has already occurred? … so my guess is zero
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My question is what is the industry norm not what is the pre-sale agreed upon rate. What is the normal range? I’ve seen 10-25% of the sale price.
It’s really going to depend on the contract and that will take into account what “helped” means.
At one extreme you have the kind of coaches that expect a commission on every horse a client buys or sells that ever set foot in their barn even if coach involvement in that particular transaction was minimal to nonexistent. I think these coaches often demand 10%.
At another extreme you have a horse in a sales barn where the trainer handles all marketing and schooling and showing to clients.
There are also arrangements where the owner selling gets a specified amount and the trainer gets to keep any sales price above that. And there are cases where this happens but owner selling has no idea.
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My trainer charges a 10-15% commission which seems very reasonable for our area and she is very up front about it when assisting with horse shopping!
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10-15% is the norm here, but it’s agreed upon in advance.
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Commissions can get really out of hand, with multiple people all wanting 20%. It’s one of the shadiest parts of our industry.
It’s very standard for an agent to request 10% in advance, hopefully in writing.
If the sale has already happened, it’s too late.
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Most typically I have seen the sellers trainer including a 10% commission in their contracts. 5% of which is forward on to the buyers trainer. So 5% on either side.
Lately I’ve seen more buyers trainers wanting 10%+ or “tell me what you want to you after commissions and I’ll tack on my own commission.” ðŸ¤¦ðŸ»”â™€ï¸ I won’t do that. It’s shady as anything. If I was a buyer I would assume my
trainer (who would be an active participant in the buying process) would receive a commission that was worked into the sales price.
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I’m seeing somewhat more complexity the last couple of years. Used to be standard 10% to both the sellers agent (paid by seller) and buyers agent (paid by buyer). Obviously lucrative in the higher dollar circles, not so much in lower dollar circles. Now I see more separate charges for an agent’s time to evaluate videos the client sends them, say, or for their time spent during shopping trips (not just their straight expenses). Usually these charges are credited toward the final commission. I’m noticing more minimum commissions as well.
I personally don’t have a problem with this, assuming it’s all laid out and agreed to in advance. It’s not an agents fault that I’m shopping in the sub-10k bracket, and I have no problem compensating them fully for their time spent finding me a suitable horse. I also don’t believe that it’s fair or adequate “payment” to then have me and the horse as a boarder going forward. I also have seen my peers kick the tires for months on end, sometimes declining to purchase anything at all in the end. Which is totally their prerogative! I just don’t blame an agent for wanting to minimize those situations, and/or at least get paid a minimal amount for their time spent.
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I just paid 15% on a sub-5k horse I sold, to the trainer of the student I sold it to. Seemed reasonable, given that the trainer was the contact and I would not have found this buyer through normal channels (social media etc).
I have also done the thing where I had different trainer sell a horse for me and anything she got for the horse that was over X amount (X being what i had paid to buy the horse) was hers to keep. I never asked how much she made on the horse because it didn’t matter–I wanted my purchase price back, and I got it, so i was satisfied.
I think it depends on what you mean by helped to sell. If it’s just a matter of you told someone about a horse that you knew was for sale and you didn’t actually participate in the process (market the horse, handle potential people looking at or trying the horse) then I think a nice card and gift certificate to a nice restaurant is fine.
I will pass on information about horses for sale if I know of something that would suit someone looking and I would never think to charge a commission as it cost me nothing to make a simple phone call or send an email. I’ve had good luck with this practice and have found most of my horses myself by word of mouth.
If you actively helped this person sell their horse, meaning you did the leg work, then 10% - 15%.
I think the whole commission thing has gotten crazy lately. Everyone and their brother wants a piece of the pie. It’s not unheard of for a seller to pay more out in commissions than they actually get for the horse. I pay my trainer to help me buy or sell a horse. I don’t pay any of the other party’s commissions.
I would never pay a 25% commission as either the buyer or seller.
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Do you see this often? Do the trainers discuss it before the sale? I have not heard of this being the “standard”, more of an outlier situation.
As a seller’s agent, I personally would never just automatically expect to pay the buyer’s trainer anything. If a buyer’s trainer asked, I would decline. They should discuss a commission or “finder’s fee” with their client. I’m not their client.
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I paid my trainer 10% plus expenses associate with selling the horse; her time spent showing the horse and overseeing test rides. I did the advertising, she was the point of contact.
fully agree since you do not have nor ever had a contract with the buyer’s agent, if there is an obligation its between the buyer and their representative
If you want to see how bad things can be research William Shatner’s dealing with the Saddlehorse trainers who were flipping horses between themselves to drive the price up before passing the beast off on Shatner . He sued and won.
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I some how missed this. Is there a link to this?
Yes. This is what I most commonly come across and do expect
That seems to be standard in western show horse sales.
Generally, a trainer lets it know such and such horse is for sale, their student is moving up or on.
Other trainers check horse if it is suitable for their clients needing that kind of horse.
Once someone settles on the horse and after a PPE, horse sells and both trainers get each 5%.
That is how many active show horses are bought and sold and it is up front, everyone knows both trainers get their percentage.
Many buyers and sellers may also have to cover any other expenses to their trainer and vets, etc. and it is nice, if all was good, to add a thank you and even a small gift to your trainer.
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Pretty much the same thing was done to Jess Jackson (Kendall Jackson) by TB bloodstock agents. He also sued and won. And then he got laws passed in Kentucky and Florida that make such dealings illegal.
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The industry norm should not be to hold your hand out afterwards. Either you made a formal, pre-transaction arrangement with the seller (usually) or the buyer (kind of a bummer) in writing, or you aren’t owed a commission.
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In A-AA hunter/jumper land, I feel like most often the seller and the buyer each pay their trainer/agent 12-15%. (The days of 10% seem to be long behind us or reserved for lower price points). It is possible to agree on a lower percentage if your trainer/agent is representing both the buyer & seller in the transaction.
You may also be able to negotiate for the seller to pay the buyer’s trainer/agent commission out of the total purchase price for the horse. (A personal favorite of mine if purchasing through a horse dealer, because then, even though the horse is likely marked up, you aren’t paying extra commission on top. You’re making everyone figure out how to split the original money between themselves).
Buyers can even ask their trainers to sacrifice the commission if they have a close relationship and/or know that they will be doing a lot of training and showing with this new horse and that will amount to significant financial gain for the trainer that quickly meets or exceeds the commission.
They might also give you the option to pay commission in installments if they really want to see you on this horse, but know that paying their commission could be the only deal breaker. (Tread carefully here…only ask this of someone you REALLY know well and know would entertain it. This can be INBD to some and severely offensive to others).
Bust rest assured…the only thing that sucks more than buying a horse, is selling one.
