Let me add this thought.
If you were buying a racehorse, would you buy one that sold for 200k as a yearling, 150k as a 2yo in training, raced for 3 years 17 starts 9-0-0-0, 4 DNFs, 2 “ eased”s and a haul off currently running in 6500 claimers with no interest???
Thats kind of what you are looking at here. A horse that just cannot do what you are buying him to do. This stopper can get you hurt too.
How high have you jumped him, and have you done full courses?
I fear that what another poster said may be true-- you haven’t asked him to do enough where he decides stopping would be easier.
These are all good points. I came to her telling her I wanted to lease a horse. She said, “well, we have this one, but I have no idea at all if you & horse will be a good fit.” Did several test rides before leasing, which is a care lease. Now that the lease has been successful, and that I basically fell in love with this horse, I’m considering purchasing. You’re right, I’ve only done combination drills 2’6 with oxers which is significantly less than he did before. Way less work! Also, who knows, I might not even jump up to a meter and will be fine jumping .80 for the rest of my life. Or maybe get into dressage, who knows!
We’re taking him to one of the best veterinarians in the area, and getting as many x-rays as needed done. No meds
You’re right on the last part too, hence why I come on here for more opinions haha
I guess my question is more, since he is such a risk, is $50k a normal price to pay for a risk?
That depends on your budget and risk tolerance.
If you have the disposable cash and it wouldn’t impact your lifestyle or cause any hardship, then I could see paying this price for a nice horse.
Horses have gone up substantially and the fact the horse is sound and you get along is a big deal. Maybe he’s a packer at the lower levels and if you get bored, lease him out and get your next horse.
I would look at the calendar and find a suitable show that would put some of the issues to the test. Not necessarily jumping 1.20, but having your trainer jump him 1.0 and you do the .80s.
Then, I would ask to do a lease-to-buy that incorporates that timeline. Maybe it’s for a month, maybe for 3 months.
The best case scenario (and very possibly realistic) is that the horse was overfaced by the previous rider and will never return to 1.20 glory. Which is why he’s priced at $50K which in today’s market makes him reasonable for a rider whose ambition is 1.0 at most. Horse prices are insane right now and this situation might allow you to get a quality 10-yr old that you know you already like at a decent price.
Can you afford $50k?
The pros vs cons- you love the horse and it goes well for you. You also have known it for a long time and know it has stayed sound. This is worth a lot to me. But you have to be okay with the horse maybe not doing everything you want to do. Would you be okay with dressage and low level jumping? Also, horse shopping can suck and be very expensive and you can get an unknown that doesnt work out. So this eliminates that headache.
If I loved the horse, enjoyed riding it, the PPE goes relatively well… I’d go for it. But I have a few friends who are having unpleasant horse shopping experiences right now! The perfect horse is very hard to find and this one sounds pretty good to me if you are flexible on your goals.
What about the stop? That is a huge issue as he has been repeating it for a long time and it is very difficult to school out plus typically takes many Pro rides to reduce its frequency but it will always be an option in his mind.
Yeah, for 50k you will need to live with some things but stopping is up there on the list of potential deal breakers for most people, including trainers looking for Ammy friendly mounts.
Is the 50k well within your budget or a stretch? And a good PPE is not chump change, is that going to be a reach for you? I know he looks sound but stopping is often caused by discomfort/pain, it hurts to jump. But they don’t limp and at (at least) 10 with a jumping career behind him ? No way there is not some tread wear that may be aggravating things without creating a limp…like its in both hocks so no limp is possible. Rear suspensory can also create behavior issues without a visible limp.
Two questions…can you post a video and do you have his actual passport/papers. Like physically hold them. He may be older then you think.
Yeah, the shopping experience IS unpleasant right now. One PPE I attempted the vet had just come from another PPE for a dressage horse being offered for 80K. She could tell the horse had neurological problems almost as soon as she pulled up. I got so irritated with the the experience that I saved myself a ton of money and ended up with the opposite of what I wanted only because the owners were honest and clearly in need of help because of health issues. If its not a good fit in the end or if he drops dead tomorrow, it’s not a huge financial hit.
This doesn’t sound like a $50k horse. If you love the horse and don’t care about showing, it could still be a great fit for you and your goals. But I would try to negotiate a suitable price that reflects the horse’s major holes. If you hope to make it to the show ring, I think there are huge red flags here, and you need to be prepared for the possibility that this is a horse that just doesn’t wish to participate in horse shows. Is that a deal breaker for you?
One thing to think about is what you could sell this horse for in a year if you want a show horse, and it still will not jump around a course at a horse show. Horses are never investments, and any horse can of course become instantly worthless. But I think it’s a good way of thinking about the market value of this horse with the information you have vs. just thinking about how much you love the horse and what you can afford to spend.
We all hope we can improve horses in our care. But I think it’s often best to assume the horse you are buying is the best it will ever be. Right now, you are buying a horse that has declined to complete course after course at shows in the United States, with your trainer overseeing its management and preparation. You have described yourself as an amateur who makes riding errors. Does it make sense to overpay on the assumption you can fix this problem in the same program as the rider who struggled with it?
I agree with others that if you felt ready to show yourself, doing some classes in a real show environment would be the best way to really test the horse’s willingness to jump for you. And the trainer might be right that it was really just a rider chemistry issue! But if that’s not really in the cards right now, then you probably should assume you are buying a practice horse, not a show horse.
Can you just continue with this horse as a lease? That makes the most sense at this point (to me). Get better at riding and take him to shows or clinics AS A LEASEE. This will help you make a decision AFTER you go through those very important tests. Please don’t jump into buying this horse yet. Wait a year or so if you can.
I would second this idea, but the OP says they are moving soon.
Edit to add quote from OP.
^^ Oops, you are correct, I forgot about this part.
OP, would owner consider an out-of-state lease?
This may be kind of an obtuse comment, but you can get a very nice and significantly less expensive horse than this if your goals are 1.0m max.
Do as lease with a buyout option. Structure the lease so that the horse moves when you do. Friend of mine recently purchased a horse with a question mark on PPE. Vet was not concerned but told her to see if owner would take 50% down with remainder due in one year and option to return horse to owner. He will redo the radiographs at that point and if no changes then tell buyer she could do the payoff. Essentially a one year lease with price assurance and not getting stuck with an unsaleable horse at the end. Owner took the offer. Horse was not inexpensive. This will give you time to improve your riding skills and assess horse faIrly. It does not matter if he goes around nicely for a pro,it has to be with you. If trainer won’t agree walk away.
Apologies if already mentioned
If you haven’t talked price with the trainer yet, why are you doing a PPE? Why waste that money before you’ve discussed what you’re willing to pay for the horse? “By the way, I’m only willing to pay 25k” after the ppe makes zero sense.
I was thinking this as well, particularly if you look for an “off breed” all rounder type. I can think of several Morgans at half this price (or less) that would happily jump little courses while taking care of their developing rider, enjoy being ridden well in dressage lessons, and hack around with friends or alone if desired.
I am not in the H/J world, but if I was asked to tag along to look at sale horses with someone who doesn’t show and is still very much learning, considering an unwilling horse in the mid 5s doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when there are so many other options. But I recognize there are other factors that make a horse “appropriate” for a show barn program that aren’t part of my decision set.
Also keep in mind that if the stopping has become a habit at shows, changing show ring habits is considerably harder and more expensive than fixing bad habits that show up at home, since you can only address them in the show ring. Some horses will recognize the difference between off-property schooling at a showground vs. there actually being a show taking place (for example, my mare was difficult at the in-gate and a steward asked me to come back at the end of the show day to work on it with an empty in-gate. Guess what? She acted like she was at home and didn’t exhibit any of the problematic behaviours because the crowds were gone.).
You should really consider having someone take the horse to a show before you purchase, just to see if a bad habit is now there.
I believe they talked price way back at the beginning of the lease.
Now the OP is trying to decide if the horse they now want to buy is worth the price they were planning to pay for it.
Got it. I’d still not move forward with a PPE until I was super sure!
OK so you are buying this horse already. 
Hope you get the very best version of him, and you and the horse go on to a long and successful partnership. 
Guessing that you are really asking about price. Not “if”, as you seem to have already decided.
But as was mentioned above, it’s backwards to first decide to purchase (and/or PPE) and only afterwards discuss price. You no longer have a good negotiation standpoint. To be effective, a ‘negotiation’ needs to include the option to walk away.
We can continue the thread discussion anyway, as a hypothetical scenario. Really good points and interesting proposals for a way forward are being offered. Another COTH learning day.
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