I find myself agreeing with a lot of the arguments here, both in favor of and against buying this horse. It doesn’t seem like OP has clearly defined riding goals, and is willing to do whatever it is this horse wants to do. And that’s fine. $50k is a lot of money for a do-whatever horse, but if she wants to spend that, so be it.
Going back to the original question of what this horse is worth in the open market, it’s almost certainly not $50k. But, the horse doesn’t seem to be on the open market. It seems to be offered to one rider who loves it.
OP, you are almost certainly overpaying. But sometimes that’s a personal calculation and it’s worth it to us, because we love the horse or whatever reason. I don’t think you should expect to jump this one around a lot or show it, but if that’s okay with you, then go for it.
She’s in love folks, ain’t no talking her off this ledge.
Did I miss whether even the trainer can get this horse round a course of jumps??
I believe it was stated that the trainer doesn’t jump anymore due to age or injury.
How does this help the trainer sell the horse?
That’s easy. Horse “hates” this rider. So, carrotgirl is not gonna want to have this rider ride this horse.
And even if she does, and they have stops at a show, it’s because the horse hates the rider.
This feels more and more like Black Stallion syndrome. There are a lot of bright red flags here.
If OP is still with us…which I hope she is, have a question. And please read through all of this.
Who outside this barn who has been in horses for many years and seen many things says this trainer has a good reputation and is the person who you need to begin your horse journey with?
Be careful they don’t just recognize the name and assume she is good. Or shes been in business a long time so she must be good, right? Thats just name recognition and no knowledge of actual practices. Show results are no indication of a trainers ethics, thats just more name recognition and that is true all the way to the top. Sadly. there are some pretty big, recognizable names with some pretty shady reputations that are just whispered about because nobody wants to speak up but everybody knows they are big name riders/trainers. That is not a recommendation or sign of respect.
You are new and there are some nuances to the horse business you do not yet understand because, again and from a kind place, you do not know what you do not know yet.
The giant red flag that is continuing to grow bigger here is you have never jumped a little course and have never seen him in person jump a course and have not even seen a video of him jumping a course in this country, only stuff from years ago in Europe.
When you asked to see him jump a course this trainer said yes but only with the rider he hates who makes him stop and has not made it around a course with him. On what planet would this be the way to sell somebody a horse to ride around courses??? Makes no sense at all. Plus pushing a newbie to buy it is unethical. At best and at any price.
The only possible way it makes sense is if she KNOWS the horse will not make it around and can blame that rider if you insist he jumps a course and he stops out. Right now she figures you are hooked anyway and will not press the issue of seeing him jump an actual course.
May we ask who is paying for this PPE, who will be authorizing what imaging of which body parts and does that person know how fast that gets into the thousand + region? And do I understand she will be there? That is most unusual and borderline unethical, the reasonable and customary procedure is buyer picks the vet and seller stays away so vet can be unbiased and comfortable giving their opinion of suitability for intended purpose.
And thats what a PPE vet does, it is not pass/ fail. It is that vet stating “ in my opinion this horse is/is not suitable for the intended purpose of jumping courses at this time”. You probably did not know that and would not expect you to know as you have never bought a horse before. Trainer may be counting on that.
Keep in mind if you do buy him and he really is 10 years old you are looking at a potentially 15 year commitment whether he is sound/ usable or not and resale may not be possible. That is true of any 10 year old horse but why start with something that already has many yellow flags and that big, red stop flag waving.
Please at least talk to your new trainer, you need some help with this.
Just to further push back against people who are saying, “buy the horse because you love him,” I really feel as if this trainer is playing up the OP’s heartstrings: “you’re the only person who can ride the horse! You are his special person!” If the OP had been in horses for many years, that would be one thing, but it really does sound like Black Stallion Syndrome (BSS, ha) to me, where this horse with the OP is not doing much and is just at his (very minimal) stress level. And I really don’t like throwing the other rider under the bus, as others have said.
I mean, I have been a former BSS sufferer myself, so I totally get it! But $50K is an expensive price tag for a horse you want to show but you’ve never jumped a course on, and who hasn’t jumped a course with a rider you have seen with your own eyes.
One more point. Those of us who feel strongly against this do so because we have been screwed, did get the fancy dinner first but we paid for it. Don’t repeat our experiences, it sucks and can break your heart. Especially when you look back and see all the warning signs you missed. Like the ones you are seeing now.
Just wanted to add that the heartbreak here can include not just bills on a horse that doesn’t match your goals and can’t easily be sold, but also the real risk of physical injury. Stoppers can be dangerous, even for experienced riders and especially for newer riders without great balance or timing. Just because the stopping hasn’t happened to you yet doesn’t mean it won’t once you progress in your riding or try to go to a horse show.
My first reply to this thread was really focused on value–is this horse worth the price? I don’t think it is. But I also think this may just not be a good horse to own at this stage in your riding career even if you can get it for free.
OP, if you get nothing else out of this thread (and I hope you do, there is a great deal of wisdom and sage advice here), please reconsider your affiliation with this trainer. She is trying to rush you into buying an unsuitable horse for well above his market value while getting you to believe she’s doing you a favor. This is not someone you should trust.
Speaking of broken hearts, I took money out of my 401k to buy what I hoped was the horse of my dreams. (and he was just 10k).
I got him home and had some good fun for 4-5 months. And then I found out why he was being sold. He had a VERY DIRTY SPOOK.
He would drop his shoulder and run. He successfully got me off his back twice breaking bones both times.
He took my confidence away.
So, it isn’t just the money. It isn’t just the physical pain if you get hurt. It could also cause your confidence to go away too. Broken heart, broken bones, broken confidence…and money outta my 401k.
I’m sorry. I also spent what to me was a large sum of money not once but twice on horses not transparently advertised. Both times, about ten years apart, were truly heartbreaking experiences and rattled my confidence for years to come.
I really feel terrible that we’ve all taken such a doom and gloom turn here, and OP I’m so so so sorry we are literally dashing your dreams, but as has been said here before, when COTH actually agrees on something, take notice.
A final note from me (OP could probably use some peace and a minute to digest all of this), and along the lines of you don’t know what you don’t know, is definitely the safety issue that some are starting to mention. I have no way of knowing, but I’m guessing OP hasn’t dealt with a truly fractious horse before. Specifically, a 10 y.o. warmblood that’s bred to jump big sticks and imported from europe. It may surprise you, OP, just how much of a 180 a horse can make when it reaches it’s tipping point, and I think those of us that have survived such moments are much wiser (and more weary) for it. If you haven’t experienced one of those “oh shit, I may actually die here” moments, you really can’t imagine how bad it can be. And as a beginner, even a fraction of such behavior from a 1200LB sport-bred warmblood may permanently ruin your confidence (or worse).
Something we learn to look for as we progress is how a horse says “No”, it’s just as important as all the things the horse does right. If it says “No” by absolutely losing it’s marbles and all sense of self-preservation well, that’s a professional’s horse. Similarly, as chancellor experienced, how does it spook? Does it throw a leg out in every corner, stand stock still and snort? Or does it immediately vacate the zip code?
You said the schooling sessions you’ve watched with the disliked rider were never pretty, or something to that affect. Can you recall how the horse expressed it’s frustration and displeasure? Were the stops nasty, or did it give fair warning? How often did the rider come off? What did it do after the stop? Spin and whirl away? Or calmly regroup? How much anxiety did he carry with him on the next approach, or was he able to leave that behind and move on? How did the school finish? Successfully, or with an animal that was more stressed out than when it started?
You need to assume this horse will stop with you at some point. Will he be overtaken by flashbacks? Or will he give you another chance to get it right? How about another chance after that? And another?
When he was spooky, how did he respond? Did he come to his senses rather quickly with a wee bit of pats and patience? Or did he grow 3 inches and take longer than 30 seconds to get over it? Was he spooky at basically everything, signaling massive overstimulation? (Because that is something that can go south real quick.) Or was it obvious things that make some sense for a horse in a new environment?
I’ll give your trainer some props in that I bet you have a pretty darn solid base of fundamentals at this point. But you need to fly the coop and add some diversity to your horse experience. I can almost guarantee you will absolutely come across another horse you love like this one. Honestly, I dare you not to lol
Hugs OP! And welcome to the insanity that is the horse bug 
Absolutely this! As an older rider, I now prioritize safety. I wish I’d done it earlier. There is a real cost to being injured – not just financial but emotional. A horse that’s a stopper can wreak havoc on your confidence. At this point (and it took me one horse that didn’t work out for me because I thought I could “fix” him), I will not buy someone else’s problem.
@carrotgirl You’ve gotten some really good advice on this thread. I’m sure some of it hasn’t been easy to hear. It seems that you are already attached to this horse, which is hard. But please believe me when I say that many of us have been burned by buying an unsuitable horse or have been taken for a ride by unscrupulous people in the horseworld, and we just want to prevent you (and others) from making the same mistakes. Not only is it an expensive mistake if it goes wrong, but if you get hurt or lose your confidence down the line, it is very costly in other ways. Many parts of what you have shared so far don’t seem to add up and have raised red flags for many of us.
I just want to add, I saw this post online and it is a very similar description to your horse. With the exception that this horse is for sale for the lowest of low fives - which would be around $10k, not $50k. So that is worth considering.
OP, hugs, first. This is not an easy situation, and I’m sure you may be feeling like everyone here is raining on your parade when you simply were worried about a price tag. For that, I’m sorry – but it’s valuable advice everyone is giving you.
I know you have not had issues riding this horse, but that may simply be because you’re not asking him to do anything outside of his comfort zone. As you progress, you WILL ask him something he’s not comfortable with. Are you ready for your first stop? Will that set off a little “uh-oh” moment in you? If so, that may make you a bit nervous to try again. I’m speaking of experience. Then what happens with stop number 2? Would you be a little more nervous? And what happens when you are prepared for him to stop, but he pops over the fence from a near stand still? Are you advanced enough to be able to ride through that? Again, this may tick off your nerves. Let me say, there is nothing like riding a horse with nervousness. It’s not fun. You start riding defensively, and that makes it worse. Please, please give all the advice careful consideration. Have you ever ridden a horse that made you nervous? If so, how did it feel, and did you enjoy riding the horse again?
I’ve had to rehome a few when I went through nervousness issues with horses. It’s not fun. And it’s certainly expensive. And please don’t think, well, I’m already doing a PPE, I’m locked in. You are NOT locked in until you sign a contract and pay for your horse. You can still stall this (or cancel) until you are absolutely sure. That may not be today, or tomorrow, or next week. Maybe it’s not going to be until you return from out of state. Please do not rush. I’m having a feeling this horse will still be there when you get back. And maybe, just maybe, you’ll find another that you bond with that does not come with the potential baggage.
I wish you much luck in your decision. Put your heart away for a short while as you sift through your thoughts.
THIS!!! SO many times this!
Further to that … it is easy to become entangled, emotionally and socially, in a process with the seller that becomes hard to stop. If that makes sense.
This goes for everyone, for the g-you-public, not directed just at carrotgirl –
The seller (trainer) builds up big expectations that this horse is going to be yours. We are going through the steps to the inevitable destination. The PPE is scheduled, xrays discussed, it is all on track to the final purchase.
Saying “whoa” is unwelcome to them, even shocking – feels like betrayal. The seller behaves as if g-you made a promise, and now you are threatening to break g-your promise to them. Even if g-you thought you were still exploring.
There can also be a misplaced feeling that one must ‘save’ this horse from its current situation. A feeling that the horse faces an uncertain future without us. That stopping the sale process is to abandon the horse to a fate it does not control. But this is a fallacy – the horse will land ok. Likely doing much the same as it would have been doing with us as a new owner. And the horse is not emotionally invested in us as much as we are in the horse. Horses quickly move on and make new friends.
But with strength, the process can be stopped. Yes, it may risk a relationship. But a transactional relationship based on g-you doing everything the seller says is not worth preserving, anyway.
I am very much among the camp that feels carrotgirl needs a new trainer, asap. Let an experienced, ethical new trainer, who has no connections with the current trainer, assess the horse and give an opinion. That would be worth hearing.
But it’s not based on his euro record alone now is it? It sounds like he’s been eliminated from pretty much every US based show. That is not a 50 k horse. This is a horse who was imported as a GP horse, failed, was leased, failed, AND is also difficult at home, and was so bad it was free leased to the OP. The OP being able to ride it at home in a MUCH less high pressure environment (or maybe it’s been drugged because the OP said that the horse has suddenly changed its behavior at home for her as a beginner) does not mean he’s worth his Euro record.
I would pay under 20k for this horse. WAY under.
