And again, carrotgirl – if you pass on him now, simply delaying the decision and getting some other experiences … imo there is a very good chance that he will still be there for you later.
If you still felt this way about him after a few months of other experiences.
Can’t be absolutely assured, of course. But he’s working out as a lesson horse now. He’s likely to be doing the same thing for the next newer rider into the barn. Where he is now.
I think this is a really important series of questions to ask. My horse does have a stop in him—when I set him up / interfere so badly that he says “Sorry, Mom, I can’t.” It’s never dramatic, it’s never dirty, it’s something I almost always know is coming before it happens. Every time it does happen, we regroup and come back around again, and as long as the distance is good enough (not perfect, truly just good enough) he goes without any fuss or holding any grudges. He’s also never managed to dump me by stopping (he’s only gotten me off three times in the almost six years I’ve owned him), but on the rare occasions that I have ended up on the ground, he stands there and looks at me like “How did you end up down there?” and waits until I get back up and go get him. These are two of the many reasons why my trainer says he’s got the perfect brain to be an ammy mount.
It’s a big contrast when compared to some horses that I’ve ridden who do have what I would call a dirty stop, where we could come in on a perfect distance and they would slam on the brakes at the last second, drop their shoulder, dump riders, and bolt across the arena more often than not (thankfully I’m sticky enough that I only came off twice across two different horses that did this over the course of a few years, but I watched greener riders come off a lot more often than that with the exact same horses).
If the stopping is the kind that I get from my horse, where it’s predictable, directly tied to something that the rider can control (in my case, micromanaging and getting in the way), and the horse doesn’t hold a grudge about it, then I don’t think it’s a dealbreaker in a purchase. I actually appreciate that my horse does it because it means he has a sense of self-preservation. I never want him to go if he doesn’t think he can go safely / successfully. If the stopping is the kind that comes out of nowhere regardless of what the rider is doing, possibly involves dropping the shoulder and spinning/ducking out at the last second, and isn’t immediately forgotten, I wouldn’t take the horse. I got on the ones that did that when I didn’t have a horse of my own and catch-rode in college. It’s not something I would pick for myself given the choice, particularly at a mid-five figure price point.
Not every horse that has refusals under a particular rider is automatically a Craiglist horse. You guys seem to be the experts on the upper market right now… how many 6 figure deals for jumpers have you facilitated?
Haven’t read everything yet, so bare with me here.
I just got back from the PPE. I got this entire horse x-rayed, and everything came back perfect except… he has grade 2, and almost grade 3 kissing spine (edit: out of 5). Blood work pending.
Hard pass
Then, IMHO, it’s worth, at most, 1/10th of its asking price. Knock a zero off the end, and then maybe…
Heck, I believe the owner/trainer should pay YOU for the horse, IF you choose to take it on. Personally, it’s a MASSIVE heartbreak waiting to happen.
I’m so sorry, @carrotgirl. Walk away now.
I never said anything about Craiglist prices. However, the horses current US record says more right now than his record in Europe. His record over seas is essentially null and void at current. Nobody is going to spend 50k on a horse on the off chance that the reason it can’t make it around is it doesn’t like its rider. People watch Clip my Horse ALL THE TIME When looking at sales horses.
First hugs. I know there is a lot of information to process and I really hope you read it.
Grade 3 = severe and marked bone remodeling. Horses with kissing spine can continue to have careers depending on severity BUT it may not be the job you want to do over time (it may need a career change or easier job to manage KS). You will have a hard time reselling that horse and you may risk a huge loss. For 50k plus all the other 
you have shared (there are a LOT) I would walk. If your trainer is encouraging you to move forward even with a big change in price: (1) trainer isn’t looking at your best interests and (2) I suspect is trying to get that horse permenately off their bills and recoup some of their loss
I would take a good look at your current training situation. What is his/her reputation on the community outside the barn? Ask at a local tack shop if they’ve heard of and can recommend the trainer or look on local FB groups. A lot of what you shared doesn’t sound normal, and from what you shared, I would not trust them. Go observe a lesson at other barns. You don’t have to necessarily move, but look for respected programs in your area and ask to observe a lesson—I think it is important to have a point of comparison (ideally multiple).
Edit: clarity and typos
Where generally are you located OP? Maybe someone on the board can recommend a trainer to look into.
I am very sorry. I would pass on this horse. It is likely that once you begin riding him on a more intense basis his problems will return quickly.
As someone with a retired kissing spine horse, I’d say pass. Furthermore, he’s a HARD PASS for a novice first time horse owner.
I’m now a hard pass. This horse, while he brings you joy now, will someday be a source of heartache and grief.
What did the trainer say when the KS was found? I hope it was an “I’m sorry” to the horse.
HARD pass. This horse is already telling you he doesn’t want to jump.
OP, this is exactly why we do PPEs. I’m glad you did this so you know. This horse is no way worth the 50,000 asking price. Seriously, this should almost be a free (or VERY inexpensive horse). Please do NOT pay a large amount (if any) for this horse. My vote, too, is to pass. He will not be your dream horse because of these findings. See if you can continue to lease him since you love him, but do not purchase him.
P.S. You now have the upper hand if you decide to continue. A lease would at least take him off your trainer’s bill for a while. She may be willing do that now that she knows. Unless she always knew.
Quite a few, and I’m definitely not suggesting this horse is a craig’s list animal. I can also see how some readings of this thread make it seem like all stoppers are created equal and that no successful show horse stops, which is just… not true.
But if she could have gotten out from under this horse for 50k she would have done so by now, not turned him into a glorified school horse on a care lease so he can get older and further increase the gap in his show record. And most trainers I know, that recognize they don’t have the right program OR the right contacts to sell it, would have a trainer friend that could take the horse on if it had any sort of talent or usefulness.
I’m also skeptical that a beginner that has, to my knowledge, never jumped a full course of fences, is going to be the rider that magically fixes this animal.
If it hadn’t been drug across the internet with all it’s laundry aired out, and was just an ad online with some decent pics and vid, the notoriously vague copy of an equine sales ad, and a $35K number tacked on, I’d probably find it interesting and worth further consideration for an accomplished rider on a budget.
Anyway, back to OP and KS… which made me laugh because OF COURSE it has kissing spines, that’s all this saga needed 
- - OP, you have been given a very graceful way to bow out of this. Consider it your sign.
@carrotgirl if you’re in the NYC area – I am too! I have ridden at quite a few barns around here and am happy to share my thoughts and spreadsheet of barns + pricing + commuting distance from Manhattan if you’d like. There’s some good ones and some duds!
Sorry about diagnosis. What a shame nobody did the right thing for him by getting the vet involved when he started stopping, how much pain could have been avoided if the trainer gave a hoot. And OP is lucky she did not inadvertently aggravate it and get dumped.
Did trainer say anything about this? Like apologize?
Hard pass. I bought a horse with kissing spine. This was before I knew to ALWAYS x-ray the back. Really talented. Lovely horse. Except, occasionally bucked HARD, out of the blue. Was ok over teensy jumps, but when I started jumping very high at all, he’d do a dirty stop, here and there. Did a dirty stop in a lesson and my coach said “I’m never teaching you on this horse again. He’s going to hurt you”, and walked out of the arena. (Coach did not find/sell me the horse. I find my own, but now ALWAYS x-ray the back.) His kissing spine wasn’t even all that pronounced, but he was still clearly uncomfortable. I will never have another kissing spine horse in my barn, even if it happens to be free. Too heartbreaking.
Give your trainer a trophy, honestly.
I’m glad you found out OP, even though I’m sorry for the horse.
Well, now we know it wasn’t “bad chemistry” or “bad riding” on the other rider’s part that was making the horse stop.
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