Confederate Symbology in Contemporary American Foxhunting

[poltroon]

@Equibrit

Overly PC in my view.

Ah, so the confederacy is still entwined in fox hunting then. Good to know.

[skydy]

@punchy

I think it’s a great question, not odd at all.

I still think it’s odd, but I suppose I don’t really know what the OP means by “symbology”. I was imagining the hunt button designed as a confederate flag or a KKK themed hunt ball.
It never occurred to me that it was a coat color issue. It’s not surprising that “confederate gray” is a thing in Virginia. Probably better to rename it, but how often is a coat color mentioned anyway? Well, perhaps it’s written in the hunt’s rules and looks a little sketchy. I can understand the OP not wanting to be counted as part of the “confederate” gray gang.

[Equibrit]

@poltroon

Ah, so the confederacy is still entwined in fox hunting then. Good to know.

Why would you think that ?
The mere fact that somebody asked the question (even though OP does not seem to understand the English language) is overly PC.

[Rackonteur]

@skydy

Does your club? I’m curious because this seems like a very odd question.

Very odd grammar, too, in the OP.

[Kodiak]

@punchy

What if the membership isn’t concerned, just one? Can just one approach the “Master” for change?

Of course. Just don’t assume things will or won’t change based on the conversation. In our club, at least, member concerns and comments are collected and discussed at regular meetings of the leadership, and decisions are then made as a group and with the good of the hunt in mind. That means sometimes grievances or suggestions are thoroughly aired but ultimately not acted upon.

I’m going to make one distinction here, based on the odd wording. Politely bringing a potential rudeness or overlooked mis-branding of the club to the MFH’s attention is one thing. Going around and stirring up the membership just so the MFH can be approached en masse is fairly obnoxious. Many club leaders are volunteers who donate a LOT of time to the hunt, so a really good way to make sure they don’t hear your actual concern is to create a lot of unnecessary drama they’ll have to smooth over.

[ecileh]

@Equibrit

Why would you think that ?
The mere fact that somebody asked the question (even though OP does not seem to understand the English language) is overly PC.

Ad hominem attacks don’t further conversation. In fact, they tend to signal that the person using them doesn’t want to further conversation and is seeking to end it by addressing erroneous aspects of the opposing position.

[clanter]

@riverpup

skydy- yes. The hunt color is Confederate Gray. It does not sound like this is common. Thank you -

oh, you are referring to color N370-4, it also referred to as “historical gray”

[Chall]

OMG., if you think things need to be up for consideration Hunts use the following triggers:
whips
brands
horses are at times sold at auctions
they use black smiths
they hunt down their targets on horseback (like they used to hunt escaped slaves)
they discriminate by color, literally (on their lapel and in their jackets),
and they refer to the top guy as ,
wait for it…
.
.
.
master

Not that the western world is left out, they throw nooses.

[xeroxchick]

I think I’d be more concerned about the Revolutionary War symbology than Civil War symbology. Like we still sport scarlet, the color of our oppressor. You should note that not all fox hunters are what you think. Many night hunters come from a tradition where poor people who came over who were not allowed by law in England to own hounds. They came here and enjoyed priveledges only allowed to nobility in England. I noticed at a night hunter trial that they use some of the same terminology, like “master” to identify the judges. Many breeds of dog that have docked tails had them so as not to be taxed as livestock, like Brittany Spaniels who were known as poachers dogs because they are quiet and hunt close. There is a real sort of egalitarian aspect to hunting with canines in the U.S. even being able to hunt was and is a freedom we enjoy. I doubt that fox hunting is really the hill you want to die on.

[skydy]

@xeroxchick

I think I’d be more concerned about the Revolutionary War symbology than Civil War symbology. Like we still sport scarlet, the color of our oppressor. You should note that not all fox hunters are what you think. Many night hunters come from a tradition where poor people who came over who were not allowed by law in England to own hounds. They came here and enjoyed priveledges only allowed to nobility in England. I noticed at a night hunter trial that they use some of the same terminology, like “master” to identify the judges. Many breeds of dog that have docked tails had them so as not to be taxed as livestock, like Brittany Spaniels who were known as poachers dogs because they are quiet and hunt close. There is a real sort of egalitarian aspect to hunting with canines in the U.S. even being able to hunt was and is a freedom we enjoy. I doubt that fox hunting is really the hill you want to die on.

Spot on @xeroxchick ! Foxhunting has a history that spans centuries as well as continents. Hunts are as varied in the U.S. as they are in the U.K.and elsewhere. From the extraordinary lineage of the fox hounds of Britain and Ireland bred by the aristocracy, to the Hill packs followed on foot, the beagles, the bassets and the farmers packs, fox hunting is not one static “thing”.

In the U.S. I believe our hunts are just as diverse in their membership as they are/were in the U.K.

(I’m still stunned that in Britain, hunts are prohibited by law from actually following a fox.)

Some of the long established East coast hunts in the U.S. may have remnants of their Southern roots. If there are particular hunts in the U.S. with “confederate symbology”, I think they stand in the minority and I doubt they are purposefully clinging to a confederate ideology. It is difficult enough to keep a hunt funded these days. Politicizing would be counterproductive.

The gray coat is easily re-named if the hunt in question is not fixated on the confederate label. If after speaking with them, you find that they are very committed to the confederate nomenclature, then you may want to reconsider joining that particular hunt.

[SLW]

@punchy

What if the membership isn’t concerned, just one? Can just one approach the “Master” for change?

Absolutely one member can speak to any Master about an idea/issue/suggestion regarding the hunt.

[Equibrit]

@ecileh

Ad hominem attacks don’t further conversation. In fact, they tend to signal that the person using them doesn’t want to further conversation and is seeking to end it by addressing erroneous aspects of the opposing position.

Speak for yourself.

[TMares]

If this is all about the naming of a color, it seems like much ado about nothing. I’m considering a paint color that is Confederate Gray for my home’s exterior. Maybe that’s ok because it’s currently Surrender (aka white). :winkgrin:

[mvp]

@FitToBeTied

It’s just the color of a material not a political statement. I’m pretty sure you could just call it something else if you want.

So… Redskins is just the name of a color attributed to group of people. It’s also not a political statement?

[Highflyer]

Just rename it Loser Gray. All the symbolism, none of the glorification.

[CornishPixie]

@Highflyer

Just rename it Loser Gray. All the symbolism, none of the glorification.

Jinx - you owe me a Coke.

[Equibrit]

@mvp

You aren’t leaving your politics at home if you are dressed in Confederate Gray, now are you?

You would have to know how “Confederate” Grey differed from any other grey.

[Equibrit]

@CornishPixie

Ask your club to change the name to Loser Gray. You’ll feel better.

@CornishPixie

Jinx - you owe me a Coke.

Huh ??

[On_the_Farm]

@mvp

You aren’t leaving your politics at home if you are dressed in Confederate Gray, now are you?

The only people making such things political are those like you. Same with NFL, MLB, NASCAR, and the NBA. The escapes from the weekly grind that were so enjoyed have now become another avenue for political rancor. If your life evolves around trying to police the color of a hunt jacket then allow me to give some very personal advice—GET A LIFE!!!

[Willesdon]

Well then, you and I know, when out hunting, that party politics disappear as we focus on the line, listening to and viewing hounds, exerting ourselves to the exclusion of other trivial daily concerns. I have excellent days in the company of people who are the opposite of end of the political spectrum from me and we all enjoy a hunt tea afterwards, together recounting our derring-do.

However, currently we are in a period of soul searching about inclusivity and diversity within the equestrian sphere. In the event that a non-wealthy, non-white person looked at foxhunting as something to try, wouldn’t the fact that the hunt club colours were described as “Confederate grey”, in Virginia, suggest a lack of welcome and probably a hostile attitude towards that newcomer? And if that isn’t recognised, that is the problem.

Symbols do matter, otherwise your national flag is just a bunch of coloured stripes and some stars in a jolly pattern.