I own a 1975 MGB and belong to the Catawba Valley British Car Club. Being that our country fought two wars to get away from Great Britain, should I then be offended that the Union Jack is very prominent within club even though no actual Brits are members?
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If it’s BRG!
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I’m pretty sure that a pejorative nickname given to a people that white Americans treated-- and continue to treat-- incredibly badly isn’t just me not having a life.
But you have badly missed the point. If calling anyone who isn’t white (and male, and straight) by demeaning nicknames were limited to just language and all those people enjoyed equal power in the economy, before the law and in religious and culture, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. No one would give a rat’s ass.
Instead, however, language and power express the same unjust inequalities. So it turns out that, unless you are on the side of discrimination, people actually should care about things you’d like to make trivial. And you now why you want to make it trivial? Not because the demeaning language gets you anything worth having, but because it grants a status quo which does accord you non-trivial privileges that you don’t want to give up.
I won’t get a life that includes co-signing your mistreatment of other people. That’s no way to live.
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Interesting response. Seems as if you’re a person who has preconceived (and incorrect) notions regarding me, my so-called “mistreatment” of others, and my so-called “privilege.” I don’t think I could plead guilty to any of your baseless charges regarding me nor do I think the various people I’ve known in my life, particularly those from the ten different countries who i’ve not only worked with, but lived alongside, would agree with your ignorant assertions either.
No one is more appalled at true racism and bias than me. I fight what seems a daily battle against a left wing church and their blatant anti-Semitism. I’ve even contacted my US rep regarding this organization as to why they’re allowed to maintain a 501-C status despite their vile rhetoric. But when I see people use the position “If we eliminate Confederate gray then that will cure racism,” I look at it as nothing more than empty gestures. Having a hunt club drop Confederate gray is not going to stop groups of black and white teenagers in Patchogue, NY from hunting down and beating up Hispanics in that town. Dropping Confederate gray is not going to make a central Long Island school district integrate its high school, nor will it make the town of Oyster Bay open up Marjorie Post Park to the minorities in the immediate surrounding area.
The latest obsession with cleansing the world from all things Confederate (even if it means rewriting history) is nothing more than avoiding the issue of racism. People who don’t like each other, whether it be because of race, creed, national origin, etc. have to be brought together and have difficult conversations before anything will be solved in that regard. If empty symbolism or any other action, such as kneeling during our National Anthem, is meant to solve racism and bias, then we’re going to be waiting an awful long time for positive results.
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@On the Farm But there is not just one way to cure the the systemic racism in our world- there are many things that need to happen, big and small. The “obsession with cleansing the world from all things confederate” as you say is more an effort to bring down oppressive symbols than to rewrite history. No different than what Germany did- as a person who fights anti-semitism I would venture to guess that you would be offended if Germany were to have statues celebrating Nazi’s and have people wish to keep them up so as “not to rewrite history.” What if the color wasn’t “confederate gray” but “nazi red?”
I truly think that we need more language to discuss unbelievably difficult topic because no, you are not a racist if you support or are involved in an organization that benefits or up holds from Confederate symbology but you are also not anti-racist in that moment also. As a society, we’re at a moment where we are reckoning what it means to have privilege. Some of it will seem like it goes too far- but if you are in the majority who has benefitted from that privilege i would encourage you step back and think about what it would feel like not to be. It may just be a descriptive name for you but maybe “Confederate Gray” is something extremely troubling to someone else. Is it not worth discussing and changing it then? History is truly told by the victors- and it is so difficult to reconcile your history and all that you have benefitted with someone who had almost the opposite experience but both can be true at the same time. I believe the OP is asking for people to reckon with that- not to change history, nor to label her club as racist but to have an uncomfortable discussion about some of the seeds of where the club was started and how it has grown. She is asking about modernization, not erasure. (OP correct me if I am wrong)
I always love a passage where someone lamented the end of the era of the horse, where horses were ubiquitous and used for sport and transport where the author than says, but how much better is it to be a horse now. To be owned and loved by only those who love the animal themselves than to use it as a machine. Horse use and sport has changed, I think and I bet you all would agree with me, for the better. We can all see that and yet still love the history that got us here- why can’t this be the same?
on the farm, I salute your work in anti-semitism. As you point out, there is truly so much work to be done.
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I think there are people in the country today looking for something to be offended by, so that they can thump their chest and point and say “look what I found”. They think this is come great contribution to the discussion on racism. It’s been my personal experience that those who talk a lot do little, and those that do a lot say little.
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Hunting is a private activity, if you don’t like that color description, you can always hunt with another pack.
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Change the name, don’t change the actual colour, explain the historic reasons why this small change has been made and stress that everyone, anyone, is welcome to join your friendly, welcoming hunt club regardless of race, creed, sexual orientation or toleration of spiders - job done. Unless you really don’t want any Tom, Dick or Harry in your club.
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I appreciate the tone of your comments, but allow me to speak to a term that has been tossed around a couple of times. First, and not the point of my comment, some rewriting of history (or at least some heavy revision) is taking place not by the victors, but by present day “historians” who are creating new narratives which really aren’t supported by fact. That’s another conversation. The term I’m questioning is the present day notion of “privilege” and how I should step back and appreciate my benefit. I’ll ask you, was it “privilege” that both my father and maternal grandfather grew up in extreme poverty? Was it “privilege” that my father was forced out of school in the fourth grade due to bullying because he was so poor? Was it “privilege” that the president of the Bank of Pineville in NC cleaned out the vault and disappeared in the 1920s, taking my great-grandfather’s family nest egg (no FDIC back then)? Was it “privilege” that that the first house I lived in from my birth in 1959 until 1962 (yes, I’m old) was a 1930s era sharecropper edition which had only cold running water and no indoor toilet? And tell me, was it “privilege” when my parents’ business failed in 1980 which led them to losing everything they owned? Was it “privilege” that after a bad marriage I found myself with absolutely nothing except massive debt, an alcohol addiction, no job, and absolutely nowhere to go? Recovering from that fiasco took about 20 years of sacrifice. I may have a 3200 square foot house and two cars now, but I challenge you, and anyone else, to provide any evidence that I achieved that through some sort of “privilege.”
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If the hunt in question is the one I think it is then they are about the most welcoming hunt you will ever come across.
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You are misunderstanding the term “white privilege”. It doesn’t mean that nothing bad or unfair ever happens to white people. It means that you are privileged to not be systematically discriminated against due to the color of your skin.
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Boy you just walked into it. Yes, I have been. Some years ago I was trying to transition from farm to racetrack and answered a Newsday ad that listed several Belmont trainers and a couple from Finger Lakes who were seeking experienced help. Even though I’d been in the business for a good many years, could prove that I had worked with some pretty good horses, and already had a foreman’s license, I never received a response. A few months later I took a horse to Finger Lakes for one of the trainers listed in the ad and being a little coy, I asked if he was having trouble getting help since I’d seen that he’d participated in the ad. His response was that it wasn’t a real ad; it was part of the process their immigration attorney went through to make the could claim that no US help was available which would then pave the way for foreign workers (Mexican, Puerto Rican, etc.) to be brought in. Nice try.
That being said, I can’t think of any instance where I gained employment, received promotions, or earned an achievement simply because I am white. I earned it all. For you to insinuate that I received favor due to the color of my skin is reprehensible.
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I never said that you didn’t earn everything that you have. And I never said or insinuated that you received “favors”. I said you weren’t systematically discriminated against (although that was a typo, I meant systemically). By that I meant that opportunities weren’t systemically denied you, not that favors were granted to you. There is a difference.
However, apparently I was wrong and you were once denied an opportunity based on your nationality/color of your skin. I am sorry that happened to you. It was wrong. Now imagine that happening to you, and to everyone who looks like you, for several generations across multiple public and private institutions. Not just once. I’m sure many Black people in this country would be glad if they only had one anecdote to tell about racism and discrimination.
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It sounds like you come from tough, hardy stock. Kudos to you for where you have landed and what you’ve achieved in your lifetime. But you don’t need evidence to prove your privilege. Simply imagine all of your family members including yourself as people of color throughout this family history. Any added struggles and disadvantages to heighten those hardships you listed?
That’s white privilege. It’s not an insult and it takes nothing away from our stories. It simply acknowledges that we at least were not saddled from the moment of birth and every subsequent step taken with the additional challenges of prejudice and discrimination.
It’s not personal, it just is.
Back to the OP - ditch the ‘confederate’ identifier. A small meaningful gesture that even the surliest could live with.
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If On The Farm is a woman working in racing or any other male dominated field, then she has probably been discriminated against a lot more than once.
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Yes, and just like a lot of white people don’t think white privilege exists, a lot of men don’t think male privilege exists either.
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And let’s not forget that if your ancestors are white they had advantages like the GI bill, didn’t have to deal with redlining, could vote, etc. it’s real.
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Holy hell! White people have way too much time on there hands. If it’s an issue bring it to the attention of the staff and suggest an alternate color name. Does this really need to be this long? @clanter already provided the exact color in numeric form.
And yes, I agree with those who think it’s insane to go on about this. Fox hunting is an escape and it’s always been a place where I felt I could make suggestions. I’m not sure why this needed a thread.
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I guess I would be forbidden since we have Morgans, and everyone knows there was a Confederate General… John Hunt Morgan… so there are two strikes … Hunt and Morgan
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The Civil War occurred almost 200 years ago. The subject is the colour of cloth. So what. Should the name Confederate be banned from from the English language. No doubt some would ban the word English too.
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