Dont hurt yourself with the back patting.
Evening attire for men who have earned their colors is a scarlet coat with tails and on that coat it is proper to wear your hunt colors on the collar ( in this case a small portion of confederate gray).
Hunting attire for men who have earned their colors is a scarlet coat with the colors on the collar.
Men and others who have not earned their colors wear a black coat. Color of breeches can vary by hunt, very few ask for brick with black.
And dont “assume” hunt buttons either. Those have to be awarded as well.
I have never ever heard or seen any evening attire being made out of a hunts colors and i doubt anyone else has either.
confederate gray is just a name of a color. get over it.
Dont hurt yourself with the back patting.
Evening attire for men who have earned their colors is a scarlet coat with tails and on that coat it is proper to wear your hunt colors on the collar ( in this case a small portion of confederate gray).
Hunting attire for men who have earned their colors is a scarlet coat with the colors on the collar.
Men and others who have not earned their colors wear a black coat. Color of breeches can vary by hunt, very few ask for brick with black.
Sorry, no back patting meant or deserved. I was trying to figure out how a trusted reference (Coverside’s Hunt Roster) and an active hunting member could disagree about what a hunt’s colors were. When I realized the difference was evening scarlet, that make sense to me.
And dont “assume” hunt buttons either. Those have to be awarded as well.
In the clubs with which I am familar, buttons only are awarded to junior members, buttons and colors together are awarded to adult members. I have never known of a club awarding colors without buttons, but perhaps there’s a club that does it that way.
I have never ever heard or seen any evening attire being made out of a hunts colors and i doubt anyone else has either.
Thank you for making my point for me. It is entirely possible to hunt for a long time and never see evening scarlet. I assure you that all the gentlemen in evening scarlet in the attached photos have all heard of it, and all had their coats made for them. And unless you go to the MFHA ball or your own Hunt’s Ball, you’re not going to get a lot of wear out of it.
@McGurk , I think you explained it already but since I do not do these things I am still confused. Excuse what is probably a silly question. In those lovely photos you shared I see three different colors of collars/lapels. I assume they all mean something different because I know in the Hunt world everything means something.
I see red collar with gold lapels. I see dark collar (I assume it is the infamous confederate grey, though in the photo I would have called it black) with a gold trim with red lapels, and then red collar and lapels. Can you please explain (probably again), what the various differences mean?
I totally agree @FitzE, good response to a pretty snarky post.
I don’t think so. Why do you think this revision helps? To me it seems a “Southern” here seems a grudging revision of “Confederate.” If I were contemplating joining a group, I’d want to see a full embrace of all that de-glorifying the term “Confederate” means. I have been a professional historian, so the historiographic issues involved in handling a past that we presently consider abhorrent are clear to me. I’m not sure that’s so, or even of interest to others. IMO, it should be because this country has some ugly history in it and we Americans don’t seem to be good at taking candid, useful looks at that.
Nope. When the effects of red lining are gone and no one has ever seen a white supremacist group in the flesh; when the rates of incarceration, death sentences, infant mortality, household wealth between blacks and whites are on par, then we will be “over it.” Telling someone to “get over” being unhappy about glorifying the Confederate South in language before the effects of its mission have been fully mitigated is to ask them to erase a critical kind of history that would have helped make our society more just.
Screw erasing an issue for the purpose of maintaining injustice.
I suspect that the differences in the lapels and color on the collars are actually representing different HUNTS, not different things within the same hunt.
Ex: Hunt A’s colors are maroon and white, Hunt B’s are blue and yellow
Two gentlemen in evening scarlet standing next to one another–one from each hunt–would have on red/scarlet tails. The man from Hunt A would have a maroon collar with white piping. The man from Hunt B would have a blue collar with yellow piping.
I have never seen anyone at my hunt ball with the lapels anything but matching the jacket in color, but that does not mean that other hunts do not express their colors with gold lapels instead of colors on their collars.
So you are not just advocating removing Confederate, you want to go further and cancel Southern? You desire to eliminate an entire chapter from 1776 to 1865? Should the Commonwealth of Virginia change it’s name since it honor an Angel-Saxon female of power and wealth? Ditto William & Mary college- they started the “take over”.
Southern is MUCH much more than 5 years of war. It’s an architectural style, a food style, a way of living.
To my mind–and in the example given above–“Southern Grey” is a euphemism or synonym for “Confederate Grey”–and that is what makes it unacceptable. Not because of Southern Culture or history or whatever–but because Confederate Grey was the color worn by members of the army who fought to preserve slavery. Not all of southern history is shameful, but that part sure is.
If it’s just a color and has no meaning, why fight to preserve it and the name? It DOES have meaning; if it didn’t, this thread would have been over 8 pages ago.
It has a negative meaning in the ears of those who look to be offended. It reminds me of the Abraham Lincoln quote “What kills the skunk is the publicity it gives itself”.
What is grey about the south besides the color of confederate uniforms? Why wouldn’t you just go with “slate grey” or “dove grey” or “moonquake grey” or “7F827C” ? The last would have the advantage of precision.
Precisely what everyone else says: there’s been back patting galore on this forum about “nuanced thinking”. Southern in the example used was a substitute for Confederate. Other examples, Southern food, Southern Gothic literature, Southern hospitality, are not relevant in any way. In none of those uses does the word Southern stand in for the word Confederate. The post in which it was asked, would Southern grey be better, the answer was no, NOT b/c the poster responding wants to do away with the word Southern (but nice try at falsely reframing what she was saying), but because she rightfully recognized that in that specific context (heads up, here’s the nuance!) it was a substitute word for an inappropriate word, and thus she rejected that change.
the hunts with which I have earned my colors did not have a hunt button.
Also the coats may be made for them But are not made of hunt colors. They are made of scarlet material .
with varying colors on the collar unique to the hunt
I think your stereotyping and bias is coming through loud and clear if you believe using the word “Southern” in relation to the color of fabric is wrong.
No, ma’am, I do not advocate some kind of erasure of the Entire South. Show me the bit of writing I did here that justifies that reading and I’ll own what’s mine.
Yes, the South is indeed much more that fact years of war. Of course those five years of war were, in fact, about that longer preceding historical chapter you mention.
I don’t think that erasing history is possible, nor even an ethical option. It certainly is not useful to, among others, the black people in the South who presently are more likely to be poor than are the white people there. Had anything other than critical history corrected that situation, then you would be right about deciding what bits of history to honor being a trivial matter.
If you want to get into a deep discussion of the purposes and uses of history-writing and historiography, I’ll welcome you into those topics. I have been a professional historian and had the opportunity to learn a whole lot about them.
IMO, the American public has not done a particularly good job of handling the abhorrent parts of its own history. This is not to say that that is not possible. Germany comes to mind as a State that has had to work through this thorny, painful problem.
And yet here (on this thread and in the US), some folks would rather suggest careless, sarcastic and mean-spirited solutions that ignore the unjust legacies of the past that continue into the present. FWIW, I don’t think the critical historians are the people who should feel shame.
@SLW seriously? What would make Southern grey a reasonable name? I just don’t see how that could be a descriptor of a color; aside from Southern=Confederate
you can whine all you want but the world is changing buddy, buckle up.
