Confo question on Canter cutie

[Peaches]

Life is a Rock

I love his head and his “war horse” status, unless the suspensory takes away from the 41 starts and $177k+ in earnings. But every time I look at him, it seems like his back never ends! Is this an illusion or normal for a TB?

Updated to add Full Moon Princess.

I’m curious about her croup. Seems very flat to me, but she’s also standing with her hind legs out behind her in both pictures. Could that be the reason? The flatness seems less apparent in the second picture.

I’m clearly very biased to bays with nice heads.

[findeight]

He does have a bit of a steep angle in shoulder and hip which creates a longer span for the back but he’s not beyond limits. He appears to be track fit so sort of tucked up in the belly and loin, that’s adding to an illusion the back is longer then it really is.

Obviously it does not interfere with function. Within the normal range. Will look even more so with more groceries and the re muscling his new career will put on him.

[RolledAway]

I personally don’t see anything in either horses that would warrant any worry. I would go take a look at them myself if I was closer, or had the funds.

[Peaches]

[QUOTE=RolledAway;7941038]
I personally don’t see anything in either horses that would warrant any worry. I would go take a look at them myself if I was closer, or had the funds. :D[/QUOTE]

Haha, I’m without funds as well! I was with a trainer for just the summer and before I left she said, “When you come back and can have a horse, go to the track and get yourself a nice Thoroughbred!” She knows I can’t live long without an OTTB in my life

So in the meantime, I’m trying to soak up all the knowledge I can about pedigrees, conformation, and how certain injuries might affect their future career and/or resale value.

Plus the confirmation help is useful for H-A studying, so thank you to you both!

[bornfreenowexpensive]

The colt’s back is not long at all. He is actually well propotioned and a nice balanced type.

Filly’s croup does “look” flat but she is also camped out behind in her pictures and that would cause that “look”…there isn’t one where she is standing up correctly. So very ard to judge in the photos. I suspect in person it will look fine.

[findeight]

Not too hot on the one you added. Hard to really tell off those pictures but it’s at least standing camped out and the front pasterns seem to me to be steeper then I like to see. But never hurts to go look in person.

You will also find a great tool in researching their race record. The first horse has an extensive one. The second? No mention on even starting, which there may be many good reasons for…or there were some issues. They also tout it for Dressage which can mean they don’t think jumping is the best direction for it. May not mean anything but it might be a clue.

Reading the ads is always an art, what is said and what is not said can give you clues a picture can’t.

[purplnurpl]

he’s built a bit downhill…and yes he is not short coupled…but he also doesn’t have the longest back I’ve ever seen.
His hocks are quite high.
But he moves nice!!

As for the mare. She’s cute.
I personally don’t like a flat croup.
But I like her big jug head with sleepy eye.

[HorseKrazy]

This one is my fav so far

http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11125:sharp-knuckles&catid=41:n-cal-trainer-listings&Itemid=61

I know…red head mare and on the small side so not great from a resale perspective, but nicely put together!

[TB_or_not_TB]

What would be your goal for the horse? That makes a big difference in the critique because the “ideal” changes based on use. Neither horse has any glaring issues and would be suitable for the low-mid levels of any sport. I wouldn’t place bets on either becoming an upper level mount, but conformation doesn’t take into account the brain or heart. All are factors, and at the end of the day most people would to well to choose brain over conformation unless there is a huge problem.

That said… The first horse has a modern “sprinter” racehorse build - butt high, a little downhill, and high stifle. This is not my favorite type for eventing, but lets look at him a bit closer because he has some interesting qualities to evaluate. His scapula is on the shorter side, which works against him in stride length, but his humerus is quite long as a saving grace to add some back in. The angle between them is just under 90 degrees, and we would like that to be a bit more open to really have a nice front end. The point of shoulder is quite low as well, so he will likely move pretty average to a tad short in front (but will also probably have snappy, hunter knees). You can see this on his video - his back end is stunted by the front and he can’t fully track up. That will be a constant tug of war for the rider in dressage.

He has a sizeable hind end with a lot of width (pt of hip to pt of buttock) which connotes power, but his stifle is a few inches too high to really give him the scope for higher fences. You see it is not an equilateral triangle between the three rear points. He is also quite straight behind with super long cannon bones. Neither bode well for soundness, though the straightness will mean he can step under better than he otherwise would have. A bonus in dressage if you can manage the front end shortness. The saving grace is the angle at which his neck comes out, because he naturally has some elevation to the front end from that, so shouldn’t appear too downhill in movement or ride. He will likely try to fool you under saddle though by raising his neck as an evasion to rocking back on his hocks since that would be much harder for him. See the development on the underside of the neck he has already. Oh, and yes, he’s long in the loin, but you would want to palpate for the LS joint to check its placement for impact. His loin looks a little weak but the more I study it, I think it’s a bit of an illusion due to his downhill stature.

So what does that mean practically? This is where conformation is deceiving. If he had a good mind and vetted, I would look at him as a horse to be a steady Novice-Training level campaigner. Since most eventers fall to that category or lower, he would be a great mount for many people. His scores in dressage would improve dramatically if the rider takes into account his build and uses that to capitalize on his strengths. If the rider tries to take shortcuts in the dressage and ride from the hand, his way of going will worsen and so will his soundness.

I was going to talk about the mare but this post got WAY too long. Sorry, I get passionate about conformation. :o

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=HorseKrazy;7941201]
This one is my fav so far

http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11125:sharp-knuckles&catid=41:n-cal-trainer-listings&Itemid=61

I know…red head mare and on the small side so not great from a resale perspective, but nicely put together![/QUOTE]

She is quite nice.As a 3yo she may have another inch in her and a little more time to shorten those cannons.

[HorseKrazy]

Merrygoround, I also wouldn’t kick this filly off my list due to her advertised height, the last red head we (my trainer/partner and I) picked up from the backside was listed as 15.2 and 7 years old so we weren’t even going to look-but he was just built to the hilt and sound so we decided to stopped in and met him anyway. It was a good thing because he ended up being well over 16 hands and was just accidentally misrepresented in his ad! My trainer brought him home that day and sold him two weeks later… That was a quick one!

[SeattleGin]

[QUOTE=HorseKrazy;7941201]
This one is my fav so far

http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11125:sharp-knuckles&catid=41:n-cal-trainer-listings&Itemid=61

I know…red head mare and on the small side so not great from a resale perspective, but nicely put together![/QUOTE]

@merrygoround;7941367

She is quite nice.As a 3yo she may have another inch in her and a little more time to shorten those cannons.

What is going on with her knees? Did she fall? It almost looks like some road rash?

[beowulf]

Really liking the colt - he is not long at all. The filly, on the other hand… looks weak in the loin, with a flat croup and camped out hinds. Despite her stance (being camped out) I do think she has a little of a weak/flat back – it is most obvious in the first picture. I’d pass on the filly. Classy looking animal for sure, but too straight in the stifle and hind end for my taste. She has some swelling on her inside LH that would make me suspicious.

[HorseKrazy]

Oooooh I didn’t see her knees! I wonder what that is?

[Peaches]

findeight, the mare’s lack of race records and the way she seems to always stand camped out makes me wonder if there’s a pain issue somewhere.

I liked seeing Silver Deputy in the chestnut mare’s pedigree, but at first I thought she looked gawky. I think that’s because, as others have mentioned, she’s racing fit. Another piece of the puzzle I need to fill in is the ability to look past current fitness and just see conformation/imagine the horse with some conditioning.

TB or not TB, you can ramble on about conformation all you want! It’s fascinating to read! One part of my H-A involves getting a horse handed to you, analyzing its conformation, and determining its potential in different disciplines.

What I’ll be looking for ideally would be something that could do 3rd/4th dressage, Training Level eventing, maybe Prelim if I loose my mind by that point, and potentially foxhunting (that’s optional). So basically, my last horse. I know I won’t find something straight off the track looking like that because he’s dressage fat/muscled in the picture and we were schooling 3rd. He’s also got his front end in a hole.

At the same time, I’d be looking for a horse that wouldn’t be too difficult to resell if they didn’t seem like the right fit. So while I wouldn’t be looking to flip, potential for resale would need to be taken into account.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Peaches;7941874]
findeight, the mare’s lack of race records and the way she seems to always stand camped out makes me wonder if there’s a pain issue somewhere.

I liked seeing Silver Deputy in the chestnut mare’s pedigree, but at first I thought she looked gawky. I think that’s because, as others have mentioned, she’s racing fit. Another piece of the puzzle I need to fill in is the ability to look past current fitness and just see conformation/imagine the horse with some conditioning.

TB or not TB, you can ramble on about conformation all you want! It’s fascinating to read! One part of my H-A involves getting a horse handed to you, analyzing its conformation, and determining its potential in different disciplines.

What I’ll be looking for ideally would be something that could do 3rd/4th dressage, Training Level eventing, maybe Prelim if I loose my mind by that point, and potentially foxhunting (that’s optional). So basically, my last horse. I know I won’t find something straight off the track looking like that because he’s dressage fat/muscled in the picture and we were schooling 3rd. He’s also got his front end in a hole.

At the same time, I’d be looking for a horse that wouldn’t be too difficult to resell if they didn’t seem like the right fit. So while I wouldn’t be looking to flip, potential for resale would need to be taken into account.[/QUOTE]

Life Is A Rock may not be a good resale option - he is older than most buyers look for and the suspensory disclosure may shy many away. By the time you have him W/T/C O/F he will likely be 8 – not too old, but not the best age to see a green horse for sale.

As a personal project, however, I bet he will be priceless. He has a lot of quiet minds in his pedigree, and good movers to boot. His video shows a nice moving horse with good suspension and when in proper work he will be moving much better.

[Peaches]

Also interested in thoughts on Dontelda Eye Ar Es. The pictures aren’t the best. She seems more compact in the hind area than the other ones I’ve posted, with a decent slant to her shoulder? What intrigued me the most about this mare is she’s tail-female to Missy Baba.

I know my pedigree better than my conformation and looking beyond fitness, so you are all helping to train my eye! Thank you!! This will be extremely useful in (hopefully) the next year or so when I’m shopping!

[HorseKrazy]

That horse intrigues me as well, but unfortunately those pictures aren’t going to help me give any confo critiques!

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Peaches;7941887]
Also interested in thoughts on Dontelda Eye Ar Es. The pictures aren’t the best. She seems more compact in the hind area than the other ones I’ve posted, with a decent slant to her shoulder? What intrigued me the most about this mare is she’s tail-female to Missy Baba.

I know my pedigree better than my conformation and looking beyond fitness, so you are all helping to train my eye! Thank you!! This will be extremely useful in (hopefully) the next year or so when I’m shopping![/QUOTE]

What intrigues me more is she is a Personal Flag horse. I have a grandson who is just spectacular and very quiet with a good egg mind. I really like her body type.

[TBHunterPrincess]

Not to hijack the thread, but I love looking at TBs and talking about conformation. As someone with a somewhat long backed gelding, I was not worried when I saw Life is a Rock. Earlier today I saw an ad for another TB, and I am absolutely in love! I am not ready for another horse, but this one is perfect in my eyes (I can even look past the bow since he is a cute mover). Am I blinded by love of is he really that nice? http://www.horseadoption.com/horseprofiles/tiz-happy/