I have noticed that in the English world micromanaging seems to flourish, while in the western world they really have figured out how to let the horse alone. But with that said, the new trainer I’m riding with is very much having the horse be independent and carry themselves and think for themselves. I think that if a trainer can incorporate both methods, as in the horse is independent of the aids and can keep themselves out of trouble, while also being light on a contact and embracing connection, you’re going to have a well rounded horse that should biomechanically be as accurate as possible. Thus, having a better chance for performance success. And with that said, I think it’s important that I note that correct biomechanics should not be equated to Grand Prix dressage movements. Because, while this is a whole different argument, the dressage we see today is not an accurate representation of the proper biomechanics we want in our top performance horses.
We’ve started youngsters w western tack. I’ve lunged with the heavy stirrups hanging. Used sidepulls.
For the working disciplines each has it’s own correctness for it’s purposes and has taught me something. Like reining taught how to get a correct back to front lead change - how to move a hip… Dressage taught my kids to execute beautiful Western trail class performances. One was 12 yrs old and won Trail at State over all the Congress rider kids. First time she ever tried Trail was at local and 2nd was at State. And she was riding in a $300 auction saddle (good old style w proper fit) and wearing a $6 Goodwill blouse and vest.
I just can’t understand WP and Paso Finos…
As a HJ rider who rode some very fancy spur trained WP horses I sympathize It took a lot of mental effort to do simple things like w/t/l transitions without accidentally yeeting myself “over the handle bars” and that was with no real spurs on.
They are when you’re going to be showing, maybe that’s the difference. If they’re trying to set their kid up for 4h and beyond success they’re going to want to cater to whichever way the kid wants to go, or toward what the horse they have gotten the kid will be good at. If you’ve gotten a western pleasure or stock breed hunter horse you can’t really up and take it to a regular hunter or dressage show and see much success. And vice versa.
A fun video with Western Reiner v English Dressage riders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=hJJmLG30V6c
I had a lovely time at first, trying to teach my daughter’s pony, who neck reined beautifully, to drive. When I was teaching him to ground drive, when I didn’t have a surcingle or harness that fit him, every time the line touched his neck, he turned. I solved it by having a halter on him under the bridle, with my daughter holding the lead rope. We were well coordinated on her cuing him appropriately with the lead rope for what I was doing with the lines, and he figured it out pretty quickly. It woud have been a lot easier had I received his harness so the terrets would keep the lines off his neck. But by the time I got it, he was doing fine ground driving, and I didn’t need my daughter’s help any more.
What was really weird was how fast it went once he had ground driving down. I was sure he must have driven before we got him (he came through a rescue with no history), but if he knew how to drive, then why did I have to train him to ground drive?
More recently, Andrea Fappani and Anna Buffini swapped horses and they both did very well it seemed!
There’s a few others on her Instagram.
I went to a reining trainer recently and I had to undo a lot of what I learned with dressage and vaquero trainers. When she had me my halt my mare, she wanted my entire body weight in the saddle. I handled it okay, but she said some people fall off. I definitely needed handle bars for the halt!
You melt into the saddle for the stops.
Using a good reining saddle puts you in the right spot for all maneuvers, especially the stop, so you are always balanced with the horse.
Not all saddles ride the same, we have to try several to see which one fits our conformation best.
Several fit very well, for me the 15" Kyle Cicero was the best fit.
I’m quoting cedarlake just because they happened to articulate their impressions very well.
This
explains this impression
Jumping does require a stronger, more actively “on” leg to keep the rider with the horse over fences. However, dressage teaches a “draped” leg that is more kin to the western leg than the jumper leg.
I’ve never done cutting, but I would expect a tighter rider leg is used to stay with the horse when keeping a cow from the herd. Anything with irregular forces or quick changes of speed and direction alters the basic rider position. Scrambling up or down a steep slope or bank on a trail ride, extended gaits in the dressage ring, a reining spin. Moments in action. Even jumpers don’t ride their flatwork with a constant gripping leg.
Form follows function, and all that.
I think the major differences between western and english riding comes from the desire to be better than others - the us versus them mentality. It happens in all human societies. As noted above by several people, the difficulties people have in riding the other discipline is the rider’s lack of knowledge of how horses are trained for that discipline. This goes for disciplines in the same english/western group as well (as does the disdain for other disciplines).
I remember going with a friend to try a couple of horses they were looking at. Both western trained, and very different responses to the rider’s seat (and I do mean bum). I adjusted to the first one, and then had to readjust for the second. Both were different from my dressage seat aids, and it would have taken longer than my ten minute test rides to to really get the feel of them.
From what I understand from my years with my ex (who is into cutting) there is no tighter leg in cutting. You need to be loose, body and legs when ridding a cutter. Getting tight on a cutter is going to get you nowhere fast, the main reason I never got involved. I’m not that type of rider.
Same!! Years ago I bought a gelding who had been doing WP at the regional level. I ride hunt seat and asked for a stronger canter with my spurs and he “coiled” up. I thought he was getting ready to unload me.
Nowhere meaning The Ground, in this case. And yes, very fast
I hadn’t come off a horse in years when I had the chance to ride a cutter. I came off three times in the first ten minutes. And it wasn’t even “on” a cow. Just that flag thingy.
I learned a lot that day. Nothing but respect for the horses and the riders.
My DD placed 3rd at QH Congress in the 13 & Under cutting class back in the day with a catch ride horse because her father effed up her usual ride by trying to over train him before the show and he started running out. She’s ridden huntseat, western in multiple disciplines and can drive a Standardbred and has her trainers license. The last time she rode was as an outrider on our local track as a parade rider for the sires stake night at the track on her retired OTTSB and did a great job!
Yes, I’ve watched amazing foals become amazing riders without being twisted into a pretzel to do it.
While it may look like the rider is doing very little, I was incredibly humbled the first time that I worked a finished cutting horse. We were at a show where the horse I was on had a lot more experience than others there, but due to my inexperience, we had a pretty rough run. Beyond choosing/cutting the “right” cow, setting yourself up correctly in the arena once it’s cut, not hindering their movement with your weight… your legs are helping maintain how far your horse is from the cow or the herd, plus keeping your horse up at the cow’s head as you go across the pen, and staying out of them when you’re not asking for a response.
My experience is that when you’re working in an arena, the cutters are a lot more hands off than an english horse. I have however sat wrong and gotten dashboarded more than once. The ones I’ve ridden do move off your leg and have an understanding of contact, bend, and direct/indirect rein, but the skills aren’t necessarily something they’d be able to display in a clean pattern. Some trainers seem to be more interested in that than others. Good fun and I’ve enjoyed parts of all the disciplines I’ve tried.