I was thinking we could start a discussion about contact or a horse that is ‘on the bit’. There seems like a lot of bad ways to achieve it, and a few good ways. I know a lot of people who ‘seesaw’ to drop their horses head. I know a lot of horses who are trained to drop their head when the rider seesaws. This is just superficial contact.
What is the definition of contact to you?
What aids do you use to achieve contact?
How do you engage your horses hind end? How do you train a horse to seek contact?
How do you teach a young horse to have contact?
Yes, agreed. I don’t think anyone on here will endorse seesaw or admit to doing it, anyhow!
However, I’m not sure of the purpose of this question.
Are you in a dressage program that is encouraging you to seesaw and ride “in a frame”? Then you need a new trainer.
Are you a decent rider who is seeing other people ride in ways that hurt your eyes? Then you need to just not look at them, and accept the world is full of fools but you will not change them, not your circus not your monkeys.
Do you already know the answer to this question, and are just trying to get some chat going?
I do think this topic has been explored at length on these forums, For a baby horse, you can get the horse to drop into accepting contact on a long rein either by riding them into it, by doing stretchy circles and flexions, or by combing the reins/ lifting the reins, which takes some skill and timing. Much of this is time well spent in ground work. Lateral work is also important here to start getting the hind end involved.
When the time comes to start lifting the horse into collection or “ramener” in the French term, you need to first have willing light contact on the long rein and enough impulsion and balance to carry the hind end forward.
Honestly, this is one of those questions where if the rider doesn’t have the feel, the balance, and the independent seat needed, then even the most elaborate instructions or even a good mental understanding of the process won’t really be useful in practice because you need to be able to ride quite well to do this.
There are lots of good online resources that can explain this in beginners’ terms better than I can in this space, so if this is a real beginner question about how to achieve contact, there are lots of resources out there.
3 Likes
I think using the word “connection” rather than “contact” gives a better idea of the goal - a connection from the haunches through your seat recycled through the reins back to the haunches through your seat again… Those who think the fake contact is sufficient will hit a road block at some point -
To me, “on the bit” means the energy from the haunches is being recycled and received into the arms/to the seat/ etc… so perhaps “on the aids” is a better term that doesnt encourage a focus on the head position.
2 Likes
I like “connection” too. I’m still learning a lot about it, and had an A-Ha moment in a dressage lesson a few weeks ago when I finally really rode my horse into the contact (I seriously didn’t think I was pulling at all but I was just a tiny bit without realizing it!) and relaxed and let him move out into it, and it felt SO different. I get very confused though, because I hear people talking about working the horse from behind and they will round up on their own into that “dressage frame”, but then I see so many top riders with young/green horses that were just started under saddle all framed up looking (though with a bit lower headset), and I don’t see how they could already be that way with so little training under saddle if you aren’t doing anything with the reins. So I wonder if they are getting the horse to give to the contact and then riding them forward, or what it is they are doing.
I feel like people use the term “on the bit” to describe a state of being between horse and rider that actually encompasses SO many different elements. People also get distracted by the head carriage because it is the most visible (though often misleading) “evidence” of being “on the bit”. If I try to boil it down, I like to think of this concept as the horse being so engaged underneath the rider that he is ready to break into any movement (forward, backward, sideways, square halt, and every variation of that [shoulder in/out, haunches in/out, volte, pirouette, passage, etc etc etc etc…) with lightness and elasticity in yielding to the riders aids. When the horse and rider have achieved that equilibrium, the horse’s body naturally forms the frame with a rounded back and mouth/poll on the vertical. I’m sure I’m missing something in there, since there are entire books written on this topic…but this is sort of what comes to mind initially.
1 Like
If you do your groundwork properly (working in hand, lunging, longlining) the horse can understand the concept of pushing from behind and bringing his back up quite well. That way of going easily translates to work under saddle as you have most of the same aids (voice, hands, whip).
Also, when a skilled rider with good timing gets on a horse that is actually green and hasn’t been spoiled by anyone else there are no habitats to overcome. Move them forward and a bit out from the inside leg into elastic contact and there’s no reason you shouldn’t have a horse reaching down into the contact in the first weeks worth of rides. Particularly if this is what they’re already used to doing.
Now that has NOTHING to do with the fake upper level frame you see young stallions and auction horses. That seems more akin to saddle seat to me, and is also a whole separate ball of wax.
4 Likes
That makes a ton of sense. Good visual for it too.
1 Like
Makes me want to send my boy off to someone to teach him properly…there was one trainer that I really liked that I had considered sending him to, but changed my mind after I really watched the dressage horses he rides (he show jumps mostly but has a couple dressage horses he trains) and they just look like they aren’t really connected. I mean, I know basically nothing so I could be wrong, but he had brought up to me using a Pessoa system on my guy to get him round too which…I just don’t know about. I would rather not.
Sounds like you’re already having some success with getting your horse connected yourself, why not just build on that? Idk about the Pessoa system, looks like a really expensive set of lauffer reins going around your horses butt. But lunging in correctly adjusted sidereins (cue 1000 different opinions) while encouraging your horse to push his haunches just a wee bit out can help build the top line muscles that will make bringing his back up easier. And that’s easier for him without weight on top. Then when you get back on and ask for the same thing you’re not introducing a concept whole asking him to fight gravity. If that makes any sense.
Sounds like your current trainer has you making progress anyhow!
2 Likes
What I am missing here is the word balance…
A horse’s balance changes throughout his training… on the forehand as a young** horse, slowly the center of gravity shifts towards the haunches as the training continues. So, being on the aids/having connection is necessary to affect the balance - just another piece of the puzzle
** I am using “young” to not only mean age, but also a horse just beginning his training in dressage, no matter his age.
This is kind of interesting. To start it, click the green forward arrow under the picture. Dressage is towards the end… https://prezi.com/hgevr7oidvwm/center-of-mass-horses/
2 Likes
I think this is a conversation that is always bound to devolve into picking apart words and arguments over things like how you define “weight” or “pressure”.
If you open any good dressage book you can find an eloquent paragraph about beautiful harmony, shifting the balance, a transformation of the horse, etc. You can also go to many barns and listen to trainers wax poetically about these things while being intentionally or unintentionally harsh with their aids. I think dressage has a whole lot of people who don’t really know how to teach the basics charge crazy money that Joe would turn into a ball of sunshine and float across the ring in a half pass if only Sally Sue would fluff her right thigh and breathe open her left elbow. Yet when trainer finally gets on (if at all), they are huffing and puffing while they subtly spur and pull ole Joe into a half pass.
I’ve listened to umpteen trainers use the exact same phrase and each had entirely different expectations of what they wanted. I’ve also heard trainers use half a dozen different adjectives for what boils down to the exact same aid or placement.
2 Likes
It’s true contact and on the aids are different things. You can have contact with a compliant green horse, or a hunter or jumper without too much schooling. But on the aids is a whole other level of manoeuvrability, and indeed you can have a good Western horse on the aids on a draped rein.
I think on the aids is a better term for what we want than on the bit. Because it’s possible to imagine a horse plunging around heavy on the forehand is on the bit ( hes certainly leaning on the bit). But he is not really on the aids because he generally can’t do more than pound around the arena.
2 Likes
