The great stallion Contender (RIP) had 2 grandsons in the jump off for the Grand Prize of Aachen today. Conrad de Hus by Con Air and the winner Codex One by Contendro !
Contendro was just ranked as 10th sire in the world and I’m sure he will be moving up.
I love seeing how genetics play a part in excellence and athletic ability. This is what is fascinating to me as a novice breeder.
Asking you As a Holsteiner breeder, what part did the the mares contribute to the two grandsons that are in the jump off? I don’t know much about Contender other than he was an excellent athlete. I often read about influential stamms, but don’t know much about them.
Thanks for posting this.
[QUOTE=Zuri;7675268]
I love seeing how genetics play a part in excellence and athletic ability. This is what is fascinating to me as a novice breeder.
Asking you As a Holsteiner breeder, what part did the the mares contribute to the two grandsons that are in the jump off? I don’t know much about Contender other than he was an excellent athlete. I often read about influential stamms, but don’t know much about them.
Thanks for posting this.[/QUOTE]
The motherlines play a large part. Conrad is coming from Holsteiner stamm 2067 that has produced many top athletes.
Codex One is by Contendro and out of a Hanoverian motherline that has produced sporthorses as well.
You always need a good motherline to couple with these prepotent stallions. They can’t do it by themselves.
Codex One is registered Hannoverian, so one supposes that his dam bore the Hannoverian brand.
The highest placing registered Holsteiner was 8th. There were 3 KWPNs and 3 Hannoverians in the top ten. The top horse is a Holsteiner x Hannoverian; the second place horse has two Holsteiner grandsires; the 3rd place horse has very little, if any, Holstein blood and the jump killing TB tail female. 4th place has one Holstein grandsire; 5th place is SWB with one Holstein grandsire and Farn back in the 4th; 6th place is Holsteiner free; 7th place is Holsteiner free; 8th is an actual Holsteiner; 9th has a Holsteiner sire; 10th is Holsteiner free. Conrad du Hus was 13th.
40 qualified for the finals. There were 3 registered Holsteiners, 5 Hannoverians, 8 KWPN, 4 Westfalens, 2 SWB, 2 sBs, 3 Oldenburgers, 1 Baverian, 4 SFs, 1 ISH, 6 BWP, and 1 Zangersheide.
As an aside, American riders made a very good showing today with 3 in the top ten and 4 in the top eleven.
It looks to me as if more of the finalists have For Pleasure as sire than any other stallion.
Holstein sires are incredibly powerful at producing jumping machines on mares of all registries. But very, very few, if any, of the horses in the finals from other registries have Holsteiner bred mares on the bottom. In the top ten, the only one with a Holsteiner mare line was the registered Holsteiner in 8th.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;7675441]
Codex One is registered Hannoverian, so one supposes that his dam bore the Hannoverian brand.
The highest placing registered Holsteiner was 8th. There were 3 KWPNs and 3 Hannoverians in the top ten. The top horse is a Holsteiner x Hannoverian; the second place horse has two Holsteiner grandsires; the 3rd place horse has very little, if any, Holstein blood and the jump killing TB tail female. 4th place has one Holstein grandsire; 5th place is SWB with one Holstein grandsire and Farn back in the 4th; 6th place is Holsteiner free; 7th place is Holsteiner free; 8th is an actual Holsteiner; 9th has a Holsteiner sire; 10th is Holsteiner free. Conrad du Hus was 13th.
40 qualified for the finals. There were 3 registered Holsteiners, 5 Hannoverians, 8 KWPN, 4 Westfalens, 2 SWB, 2 sBs, 3 Oldenburgers, 1 Baverian, 4 SFs, 1 ISH, 6 BWP, and 1 Zangersheide.
As an aside, American riders made a very good showing today with 3 in the top ten and 4 in the top eleven.
It looks to me as if more of the finalists have For Pleasure as sire than any other stallion.
Holstein sires are incredibly powerful at producing jumping machines on mares of all registries. But very, very few, if any, of the horses in the finals from other registries have Holsteiner bred mares on the bottom. In the top ten, the only one with a Holsteiner mare line was the registered Holsteiner in 8th.[/QUOTE]
You know…you were making sense until the last paragraph and then your inexperience in all things jumping sport comes out yet again.
Do you know why “other registries don’t have Holsteiner mares on the bottom” ? Because they use the Holsteiner Stallions on mares they mostly already have in country Viney.
Again , you make statements about only what you see at one show. You just stated the SF was the best horse but you failed to mention that they dropped to sixth in the Studbook rankings and their highest finisher today was 13th. There were also MANY horses in Aachen by the # 1 sire in the world , SF Baloubet du Rouet. The Baloubets had relatively little success at Aachen.
Now I guess you will be saying that For Pleasure is the best stallion in the world as his offspring had good results at this show…for this one week ? You blow with the wind…
Don’t you worry about Holsteiner mothers…their book is currently ranked #1 in the world. They hold 14 of the top 25 motherlines in the world including positions 1,2 and 3.
You want to know about Holsteiner mothers in other registries ? I’ll give you one off the top of my head. The Westfalen Cornado is the #2 ranked Horse in the world and he is from a Holsteiner mother.
You continue to make absolutely no sense with your generalizing blanket statements.
Didn’t you say that the Hannoverians had bred the jump out of their horses? For Pleasure is Hannoverian, and 3 of the top ten in the most prestigious GP in the world are Hannoverians. I wish we had that kind of jump to breed out of American horses.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;7675581]
Didn’t you say that the Hannoverians had bred the jump out of their horses? For Pleasure is Hannoverian, and 3 of the top ten in the most prestigious GP in the world are Hannoverians. I wish we had that kind of jump to breed out of American horses.[/QUOTE]
Again and again…you mis-speak. When will you ever stop it ?
I said the Hanoverians had bred the canter out their dressage horses. Never said the first thing about their jumping horses.
They have always had a few good jumping lines. Stakkato , G line , For Pleasure etc.
Again…you use one show as a guage. You must learn about this sport as a whole Viney and not just what you read on the result tab. You fail to realize that these horses were bred 10-15 years ago ,yet all you can see is an isolated show result in front of you. I would remind you that during your blind touting of For Pleasure…you failed to see that one of his children did not win.
3 out of the top ten is a good result for them. The winner is by a Holsteiner Stallion out of a Hanoverian mother. Great day for the Han. Studbook.
Also…the intent of my post was to pay homage to the great stallion Contender. You chose to attempt to derail the intent by poo-pooing the Holsteiner Horse. Childish…
Apparently you’ve changed your mind about the Hannoverian jump. This is from a post about 4 years ago.
Bayhawk
The REASON they have lost the jump is because they have lost the canter. I don't know how much clearer it needs to be said ?[QUOTE=vineyridge;7675732]
Apparently you’ve changed your mind about the Hannoverian jump. This is from a post about 4 years ago.[/QUOTE]
That’s really creepy viney. You are to Bayhawk like Alex Forrest is to Dan Gallagher.
Maybe it’s time for you to swallow your pride, sit back and listen to Bayhawk for once.
What’s creepy? I remembered it; I searched.
I’m just sick of Bayhawk bragging all the time about Holsteiners. He starts threads to brag. All I do is I point out on those threads that other registries have just as good or better days than the Holstein registry. And other stallions like For Pleasure had a great deal of influence in the GP of Aachen. And that mares from other registries produce just as high quality show jumpers.
I have no idea who Alex Forrest is to Dan Gallagher.
[QUOTE=Nikki^;7675803]
That’s really creepy viney. You are to Bayhawk like Alex Forrest is to Dan Gallagher.
Maybe it’s time for you to swallow your pride, sit back and listen to Bayhawk for once.[/QUOTE]
Why should she do that? There is a strong emphasis on dressage in but there have always been top jumpers and jumper breeding lines from Hanover as well.
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;7675260]
The great stallion Contender (RIP) had 2 grandsons in the jump off for the Grand Prize of Aachen today. Conrad de Hus by Con Air and the winner Codex One by Contendro !
Contendro was just ranked as 10th sire in the world and I’m sure he will be moving up.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, looks like a tribute post to a great stallion for whom Reece had a great deal of admiration and respect. Nothing more than that and certainly not a “My registry is better than your registry, neener ,neener” post. I think we can all agree that Contender holds a place in history. Thank you for reminding me of that in this post Reece.
He is correct about the dressage lines of Hano, and they are looking to infuse jumper lines back in to improve the canter, be it Holstein or Westfalen or Trakhener or whatever. It’s not a negative comment, it’s a reality of breeding elite athletes: you gotta go with what works and not get stuck tilting at windmills. It’s not enough to look at the registry of the foal, you have to look in depth at the bloodlines.
[QUOTE=ladyj79;7675957]
He is correct about the dressage lines of Hano, and they are looking to infuse jumper lines back in to improve the canter, be it Holstein or Westfalen or Trakhener or whatever. It’s not a negative comment, it’s a reality of breeding elite athletes: you gotta go with what works and not get stuck tilting at windmills. It’s not enough to look at the registry of the foal, you have to look in depth at the bloodlines.[/QUOTE]
Who is getting stuck tilting at windmills? What is that about?
My comment was in reference to Reece’s argument from a few years back that basically Hanover was a weak registry for jumping. Yes he said that and has continued in that vein until post 7 of this thread. Viney has even provided a quote in post 8.
GAP, I wasn’t talking to you, but I appreciate you once again quoting my comment and acting like you and I are personally having a conversation.
And I’ve just figured out how the ignore function works. Priceless.
Apparently you don’t know how the internet or posting on a bulletin board works. You aren’t a princess who gets to pick and choose who responds to your posts. And yes I know you’ve put me on ignore because you’ve announced it as though this is elementary school and you think you’re too cool to talk to everyone. :lol:
Anyway, it’s great that we’re now all on the same page and can agree that Hanoverians have some great jumping lines. Hurrah.
Not to take away the thread about the great influence of Contender.
But you need to study bloodlines, not registries. When talking about jumping horses, there is no doubt the Holsteiner is top, but you see the blood used in all the best studbooks.
Look at how many great Holsteiners have been leased to France and other countries that are strictly jumping studbooks. Belgium and Holland produce many of the worlds best jumpers, with Holsteiner and SF blood. The most successful studbooks are the ones using the best jumping blood, some studbooks have become more open to encourage this.
Not to take away from For Pleasure, as I own one and he has always been a favorite of mine. But For Pleasure is dead now for 2 years already, and only now are we really seeing any of his offspring reaching the highest level. Its not because no one ever tried using him. It’s a lot to do with the fact that he was used mostly on Hanovarian mares in the beginning. This might get you a nice amateur friendly 1.45 horse but not a 1.50-1.60m horse. There are going to be a few always, but Marcus Ehning would even have told you a couple years ago, there has not been much coming from FP.
Until the Belgians started using him on Nabab de Reve mares and other larger scopier type mares. Holstein has used him, and also the French, and now we see them coming. My FP mare is luckily out of a large framed Quidam de Revel/Cassini/Caretino mare. She is a registered BWP mare and was put in foal to FP by Joris de Brabanter (who for serious jumper breeders needs no intro).
I could go on and on. I tend to side with Reece on his strong belief of the Holsteiner. His delivery is not for everyone, but you guys seriously need to get out there and see the real deal in the flesh before making such strong opinions.
Personally, I base my opinions on seeing horses jump and on show results, thanks. 
Don’t most people?
Viney’s point (and it’s been made on this forum many times) is that the best jumpers are a mix of the best jumper lines, not all of them from Holstein. It’s not exactly news, is it?
Another thing – I just looked at the first page of For Pleasure’s progeny on horse telex and I’ve already counted 8 1.6m jumpers by FP from Hanoverian dam lines.
I am not talking directly to anyone in my post.
Horse telex is not complete or entirely accurate. 8 is also not a large number given the hundreds and hundreds of mares he bred in Hanover.
Look at Holsteiner Cumano’s results, and he has had years of fertility problems. He I think is the most reliable producer of 1.60m horses and with such a small number of mares he was able to cover.
Talk to the people in the business when you like to know the real deal. Videos and stats are good, but it is not everything.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;7675732]
Apparently you’ve changed your mind about the Hannoverian jump. This is from a post about 4 years ago.[/QUOTE]
Viney…you have a real problem. Don’t you dare take my words out of context. They lost the canter in the dressage horses and were about to lose it out of the jumpers UNTIL they made efforts to approve stallions like Caretino , Contender , Linaro and Contendro with a swipe of the pen.
This was the first time Hannover had ever approved stallions without physically looking at them and they did so to TRY AND SAVE THEIR CANTER ! This is where you took my comment out of context.
You are jealous , spiteful and petty to the point you went back 4 years to try and spin my words in an effort to make yourself right . This is disgusting…and I’ll leave you with the words of W.C. Fields…“I have no time to suffer a fool”
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