Contesting scores

[pony_grandma]

I’ve sat w a controller and I kept a log for the calls but they were the back-up for the JJ sheets.

A tip - for score runners. Always eyeball the sheets when you pick them up to look for empty lines. Easier to catch it while at the fence.

And JJ’s always write a brief description of horse/rider for some memory recall and to back up any comments you enter for any inquiries.

Most controllers have a magnetic board and some magnetic pieces that they move around on the course for where the two horses are on course (one on 1st 1/2, other on last 1/2). And count refusals.

[emeraldcity]

Yeah this… I can’t imagine how anyone could possibly get all the correct information off the radios. It’s SUPER easy for people to talk over each other unknowingly. I’ve always been instructed to call in every fence on the radio as long as it was possible (multiple A1 and A2 events), but things do get missed and we have always been instructed not to call anything in if there is a fall being handled or some other important thing going on. The cross country controller uses this information to make sure things are flowing and no one gets lost, and if there’s an announcer they may use it to announce, but it is NOT scoring. The paper sheets are official. I’ve always been given a ziploc or something to keep them in if it’s going to be wet and I can’t be in a car. Typically someone drives around on an ATV between divisions to pick up the sheets. Maybe a TD can offer clarification on whether there’s an official rule on this, but this process has been essentially the same at every event I’ve ever JJ’d at, multiple across two areas with different management, so I think it’s pretty standard.

[Larksmom]

I am jump judging this weekend, and it looks like rain. We have always had some sort of plastic for a cover of the paper. It is a major pita, but jump judging in the rain isn’t fun anyway.

[skydy]

@Janet is a TD.

[fanfayre]

Waterproof paper! It’s a thing! A little more expensive than regular paper but it won’t fall apart and ink and pencil will stand up in the heaviest of rain.
Maybe suggest it to the organizers?
and for you to stay warm, if not dry…

Edited to say this was more of a generic suggestion to any organizers, even though I directed it to @Larksmom. The H2O-proof paper can be printed just like normal paper so the score sheets can be printed but the ink or pencil won’t run. Here;s an example Waterproof paper

As another generic thought, since “everybody” (almost) has phone cameras now, jjs could take a photo at end of each division judged or before runners collect that score sheet as back-up?

[Larksmom]

well they are much more experienced than I and they would have to have the paper to have it ‘marked up’ for use as a scoring sheet. I have heard there are (or were a month ago,) only about 40 horses entered, and if that is so, they are gonna take a bath financially.

[Syrynx]

I just JJ’d last weekend and people were talking over each other on the radio, the horses went out every 2 min so that was hard to avoid.

When I score on the sheet, along with the number, I generally write down a quick description of the horse and the riders colors just to add a bit more clarity if anything contested.

[Larksmom]

when I jj, there are inevitably people talking over each other, but the people at the receiving end are dogged in their attempts to get it right.

[Janet]

I do not think there is a specific RULE requiring paper score sheets, and I know there is at least one company that provides WiFi based scoring. But I would hate to have to investigate an “inquiry” without the paper score sheet. Especially since jump judges often radio in (and/orwrite down) an incorrect rider number. When you have all the paper score sheets it is easier to sort that out.

As I tell the jump judges, the 3 most common inquiries I get are

• It wasn’t me
• I had not presented yet
• It wasn’t a refusal

The paper score sheet is far more useful in sorting that out, compared to what was said over the radio. You can’t “draw a picture of what happened” over the radio.

[Syrynx]

LOL they sure were!

[Larksmom]

I often cannot see the number, and I would hate to tell you how many times I have had to rely on the loudspeaker, and jjs in front of me to announce who is heading for my jump.

[Syrynx]

Same! This year I was at fence 2 and I could clearly see fence 1. So much easier than being out on the middle of the course.

[Janet]

I know. I am not blaming the jump judges (I am a jump judge too).
Suppose
Fence 3 has

• 43 clear
• 42 clear
• 44 clear

Fence 4 has

• 42 clear
• 43 Refusal
• 44 clear

Fence 5 has

• 43 clear
• 42 clear
• 44 clear

Then, if 43 makes an inquiry, saying they didn’t have a refusal at fence 4, didn’t pass anybody, and weren’t passed by anybody, I am probably going to give them the benefit of the doubt. (I am also going to find 42 and talk to them.) But if all I have is what the controller filled out in a master score sheet based on the radio calls, I am not going to have that information

[Jealoushe]

this happened to me too and I had to show my go pro footage to get the 20 removed lol

[Larksmom]

the good news is looking ahead now, the weather guessers are saying rain from 12 am till maybe 6 am. So hopefully, no rain but the humidity!

[fanfayre]

Weather guessers

[CodyNKR]

The paper jump judge sheets are the official ones.

[pony_grandma]

When you can’t see #s then descriptions are very necessary as you rely upon radio calls. I’ve been there w that problem.

There’s a thread in the past about challenging time penalties. And I added in that one about the ones that are made necessary at nondesignated - hold fences.

Can You successfully Challenge Cross Country Time Penalties

Now I am not stupid…It wasn t my time penalties…But I observed an interaction and was very very curious, coming from a family with Swimming Competitors where “The Official Time Stood” period…Pitting your personal watch…well after your run is over…against the “official Clock” how does that work…your watch can be diddled with while you are pondering the penalty impact…I tried to Google it but found nothing…maybe I am stupid:lol::yes::eek::D:winkgrin:

^^^ probably all more than you’all ever really wanted to know!

[Larksmom]

well, I was jump judging 2 weeks ago and they put me at the first fence! So I had to pay doubly attention.

[pony_grandma]

I remember a fence #1 assignment and at first I was stung thinking oh this is too easy. I had a great day watching the start box and the scenarios there. I learned a lot.

The trainer that hand walked her student to the area and then announced ‘this is where she has her problems.’ Atta way trainer… Sure enough there was a lot of tugging, circling and bit pulling going on once the trainer had to let loose. Then the smacking the horse coming out of the box … that horse NEVER SAW fence #1 3 Refs and DQ’d.

Trainer, horse - student and parents walked away. Horse probably needed to be sold and go purchase. I wished I had a wad of cash on me I’d have made an offer!