Depends on the horse. My 17 hand Standardbred (a pacer) wore the same size blanket as my 15.3 Appendix QH, he was very short backed for his size, had a beautiful hunter type trot and a lovely canter. My DDs STB (another pacer) is a bit over 15.1 maybe, has a short back, a beautiful trot but a pacey canter. I’m sure it will improve if she ever gets regular riding in on him, but she’s so busy with the actual race horses right now, she really doesn’t have the time.
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the mustangs i recently purchased, 4 out of 600 or so offered up at auction, were selected for many things, but included in the criteria was a shorter back. They were not the typical longer bodied stock, but leggier. I chose them from an array purposely for their structure. So, maybe i could still be on with my assessment of longer backs and your experience with your selections be atypical? Or seeing what you do out there on the track, is my assumption of longer backs wrong? I’m very willing to change my opinion!
anyhoooo…shorter back longer legs DOES make overstep a much more achievable thing. In the case of my new boys, it’s a slam-dunk. They just walk that way… Nowhere NEAR saddled yet.
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We race STBs. We’ve had them anywhere in size from under 15 hands and looking like a Hackney, another (my DDs horse) looks like a 15 HH QH, my 17HH boy looked more like a coarse headed warmblood (though he did have a skinny neck). Mistaking them for a TB, maybe some, we had a lovely trotting mare that was TBy looking and a few of the pacers, but there are differences you can pick out if you spend enough time on the backstretch.
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Its not jsut the directives for the movement, or the definition of the pace (now called “variety of the gait”) that is important. Its also the requirements of the level, some of which is at the top of the test. At the level where “extended” trot is tested, 3-1 (introduces extended gaits), the Purpose of the test reads: PURPOSE
To confirm that the horse demonstrates correct basics, while maintaining consistent
uphill balance and self-carriage. Increased engagement facilitates clear differences
in collected, medium, and extended gaits with well-defined, balanced transitions.
Movements should be accomplished with harmony and ease due to the increased
balance and collection. The horse must demonstrate a greater degree of
throughness, suppleness, straightness and bending.
Note my highlighting.
The cob does not show that.
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Of course, there is more to the score of a movement than just if the foot flips, or the cannon bones arent perfectly parallel.
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This EXACTLY.
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Several people have offered very good detailed explanations for you.
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Lets agree that we see things differently.
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It’s not about seeing things differently, it’s about you seeing something that isn’t there and does not align with the directives. This horse is not in self carriage with increased engagement. He is not through. He is not connected in the bridle nor is he “on the bit” The fact that the rider can have light contact with a bit does not mean a horse is connected, through, or on the bit.
He is a lovely horse but he is not in any way performing an extended trot according to the directives which you seem to be having trouble connecting with real life movements. Multiple people have explained it in what I think is a clear manner, yet you disagree with all of them.
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just back from feeding, took a couple of quick snapshots of my Standie. So, would you recognize him for one if you weren’t told?
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He has the bit in his mouth and doesn’t appear to be resisting. That is not “on the bit.” He is accepting the contact in a way that would be entirely suitable for Into and possibly Training Level, but no higher. Perhaps you need to read the directives on the tests for each level? You seem to be lacking some understanding of the progressive nature of dressage training.
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Thank you for this. The cob does not demonstrate any uphill balance, thoroughness, engagement or collection. I’m sure he’d score very well at Intro but wouldn’t crack a 60 at Third because he’s not meeting the requirements of the level (based on what’s shown in the video)
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Dare you to stick me on a fancy horse and I will be happy to prove you wrong.
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and I think I will clarify that NONE of us think that with training he wouldn’t be excellent at 3rd and higher, just not where he is now based on training and how he’s ridden.
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I certa
Quite a few of us own upper level horses. Trained them, too. I know you don’t.
No, you mentioned the couple of people YOU know who left dressage. Not congruous with people who show dressage. Yes, you harped on the dressage judges for rewarding “leg flingers”. Just read your previous posts on this thread. You are very negative toward dressage and your posts should be read in that context. I have not missed years of discussion with people who actually ride dressage. And certainly on this forum. I actually ride and show dressage. Do you? I’m pretty sure your don’t after years of reading your posts.
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You will say I have Rose Colored Glasses. It figures because I don’t agree with you and you can’t seem to discuss much. I already said you and I will disagree because you are against dressage riding, training, breeding, showing, judging and everything else about dressage. You don’t ride, train or compete in dressage but you will offer opinions anyway. I don’t think you are in a place to judge the sport… That’s my opinion.
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Sorry, this should be a reply to @Carrie94, not @volvo_240: WHAT?? If you think it doesn’t take much skill to ride one of these athletic, huge moving horses, and to produce an FEI test on one with a respectable score, I’ve got a lake house in the Sahara to sell you.
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You couldn’t possibly be farther from the truth, because you seem to be only taking my comments as about an entire discipline, and not about the specifics I have detailed.
What I AM against, is any man-made aesthetics that puts some weird idea of “good” ahead of what is actually functional, and that sad reality is part of almost (because I can’t say all) every discipline and animal breeding program out there.
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Definitely not a TB. I’d need to see him move to identify him as a SB rather than a grade crossbreed. But not a TB.
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I see reins shortened to a length where there is a fairly consistent contact with the mouth. I see zero evidence that the horse is reaching into the bridle and filling the reins establishing an authentic communication with the riders hands. If the rider lengthened their reins I have little doubt that there would simply be a loop in the reins. A horse accepting the bit would follow the contact stretching down and out into the reins. A horse that is connected also has the ability to accept and respond to a half halt. We aren’t show transitions but I don’t anticipate that a horse at this level of balance has the ability to seamlessly come back into a working trot without losing cadence, inverting, etc. It’s a nice horse but it’s a nice horse getting trotted above tempo with a fairly quiet rider on a short-ash rein.
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so you wouldn’t see him and automatically go: Oh, that’s a standardbred.
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