This is interesting because the top horse looks to me as if it were “running downhill,” and it looks like my horse (who is an older schoolmaster lesson horse) feels when he’s stiff and wanting me to carry him.
The second horse looks like a horse who sees something he might like to spook at so he’s on his toes.
And thank you to everyone for the videos, I’ll watch more
I suspect that may be because of where in the trot stride the photo was taken. Look at the pictures I posted of Valegro (swoon! 
). He’s already through the push portion of the stride and his hind leg is already coming off the ground or is in the air.
In both of the other pictures, the horse’s hind leg is still in the landed phase and is, I believe, just starting to push off. The top horse is not downhill, look at his withers relative to his croup. Compare it to the original black and white photo; that horse is, again IMO, “running” but not quite downhill.
Our superstar from years past, Ahlerich, looks “on his toes” because he is passaging which requires a very high degree of collection. It’s a good thing! Here’s video of the victory lap from his gold medal. Count the 1 tempis; nothing spooky about this rockstar.
I don’t think phase of stride should matter . A horse is moving uphill, or level, or downhill and it will show up in whatever phase of the stride they’re in. But the push phase will look more uphill than the moment of suspension, for example. A horse still pushing off like in 'my" pic should, technically, look more uphill than in the phase of stride Valegro is in, but it doesn’t. The top horse isn’t really downhill, but his impression is that he’s moving towards a point on the ground some distance in front of him, where the 2nd horse, and of course the Valegro pics, there’s the impression they are moving to some point up a wall some distance in front of them. Most of that impression is because of how his head and neck are positioned, but that’s actually the whole reason he’s not as uphill as he should be - it physically increases the front end weight.
Withers to croup doesn’t indicate uphill or downhill, not on their own. Tall withers can given an impression of being uphill, mutton withers the opposite. They can give you an idea whether a given horse is moving more uphill today vs, say, last week, but you can’t compare croup-withers from one horse to another. Obviously there are some exceptions - a Piaffe had better have higher withers even if they’re mutton!
I think you misunderstood. My comment was not a bash on any breed, in fact the opposite. My own Quarter Horses do piaffes and pirouettes pretty darn well.
GP riders SHOULD be capable of taking any horse to CORRECT GP. But can they? I mean truly, can they?
Have you ridden a big moving warmblood before? I’d think not if you think it’s the knee block keeping you in the seat.
Sure have!
I don’t know, I feel like I’ve seen enough riders doing GP bracing their legs against the blocks, leaning back and pulling their horses BTV. I’m not saying all riders do that, but I’ve seen enough of them to know it’s prevalent.
How’s your sitting trot? At what level is your horse and what breed are they?
Sitting trot is good but on a WB it is a WIP. 
I train youngsters and have taken my reining/cutting bred Quarter Horse to nearly GP level (she can piaffe, passage, pirouette, etc).
I didn’t take your comment as bashing any breed 
This is where it gets unfair. Not every horse is capable of correct GP, no matter how talented the rider, and that applies across every breed, and applies to most horses in a lot of breeds. So no, no single GP rider is capable of taking a functionally downhill, butt-high, sickle-hocked horse (of whatever breed) to correct GP. He’ll break first, and will be physically incapable of some of the required movements.
Most competent GP rider should absolutely be able to bring any well-enough conformed horse, with the brains for it, up to GP competence.
But there are some who require btdt horses to compete on, not having the fundamental education on how to train horses up the levels, only how to ride what’s already there, learning the buttons to push to get the pre-installed movement. And absolutely they exist, they exist in every discipline.
Not everyone has what it takes to be a teacher, for a variety of reasons.
Not every horse is capable of correct GP, no matter how talented the rider, and that applies across every breed, and applies to most horses in a lot of breeds. So no, no single GP rider is capable of taking a functionally downhill, butt-high, sickle-hocked horse (of whatever breed) to correct GP. He’ll break first, and will be physically incapable of some of the required movements.
Oh absolutely, agree completely. I used the word “any” loosely.
What kind of scores does your QH get? I think that speaks to our previous conversations about scores in non purpose bred horses.
Physics disagrees with you; think of the canter, on the third beat, the horse is completely on the forehand. Another reason why it’s better to look at videos to get the overall sense than a photo. You are of course free to think whatever you’d like. Either way, the context of my comment was in response to @einhorn 's comment that the horse in the picture with Ahlerich looked like it was running downhill to them.
A horse in the beginning of the push phase hasn’t pushed off yet and, if overall is uphill, is pushing the forehand of the horse forward and up as opposed to the forelegs pulling the hind end forward. At the end of the push phase, that push has already happened and lifted (hopefully) the front end.
This may be devolving into a semantical argument.
If you are suggesting that Valegro or any of the other horses in the color pictures are less uphill than the horse in the B&W photo, I don’t think we are going to have any common ground in this discussion.
No, I’m not suggesting anything of the sort. If that’s how things are being read, then I’m clearly not explaining things well, so will bow out.
I don’t think anyone has ever said it’s bad to have a photo that isn’t perfect. Horses are living breathing feeling animals who have great days and not so great days, and even on the great days, have “missteps” along the way. And that was the entire reason my first 2 photos were with the comment of knowing nothing about anything other than these moments in time because there was never intent to judge anything, the entire purpose was to show the difference between poll high and not, in those 2 moments in time. That’s it.
I think everyone knows that; the conversation though has moved on in another direction.
It’s all good.
What kind of scores does your QH get? I think that speaks to our previous conversations about scores in non purpose bred horses.
No shows around here for miles. I don’t expect she would score very high because she is so muscular she doesn’t have much range of motion. But she is very correct/pure (and puts 1000% effort in, she literally grunts and nickers as she does her passage 
).
What does “nearly Grand Prix level” mean to you? To most people it means PSG-Intermediate, not that you have trained piaffe or passage at home. Do you have a dressage trainer on the ground helping you?
To me nearly GP means capable of doing a solid Intermediate II test. I know lots of PREs and Lusitanos that can do all the P’s but are not close to ready for GP…or PSG for that matter!
Because passage has more cadence than trot…
Range of motion is one indicator of suppleness. She cannot be really “correct” is she isnt supple. I have seen some reining/cutting QHs show some amazing RoM…
Quoting myself to say;
I only ask because I trained my at home hacks, at home (not dressage horses, the only dressage movements I used were the usual basics when training any horse, shoulder in, shoulder fore, etc…)
Though I did train alone much of the time, you (g) have to have knowledgeable eyes on the ground, frequently, to tell you what you and your horse are doing well, and what you need to do differently.
I think it would be even more important to have expert eyes watching you, when you are teaching a horse Grand Prix Dressage movements. If you don’t show, having someone very good on the ground is the only way you can have proper feedback.
I have known people who are certain they are riding at a certain level at home, without instruction or with poor/little instruction who end up at shows and are shocked, angry, and disappointed at their scores. Generally they blame “modern” judging standards and never show again. I’m not saying that an experienced trainer can’t have a GP horse and neither one of them has ever shown rated dressage but the movements are correct but it’s pretty rare.
In between your bolded bits was the phrase “whilst controlling the poll”. That, along with all the test guidance will stress acceptance of contact. To be fair he isn’t resisting because the rider simply isn’t asking, because that’s not what you do in a road gait.
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