Cost/benefit analysis of horse showing?

[pds]

I believe that the cost/benefit of rated horse showing today has become inverted. The cost of horse showing vastly outweighs the benefits for the majority of riders except pros or those that are in the business of selling horses.

Reading another thread on what one thing would you change about horse shows made me question just what do the majority of riders really get for their $ at horse shows and is the benefit = to the cost (or at least close)? It seems to me that our system is broken and has been for a long time and for all the exhibitor negatives, nothing improves.
Why is that?
What can we do to reverse this trend of mega shows gobbling up dates, increasing costs and limiting show choices?

[Training_Cupid]

Yes horse shows are expensive, but they are totally optional. Obviously if you choose to go you feel like the cost is worth it to you. I do it because I enjoy it, and it gives me goals to work towards.

[ohmylivia]

I’d second Training Cupid: I do it because I enjoy it. As an amateur at fairly low levels, there has never been any “benefit” in a common sense- there’s little or no prize money, it requires me to take time off of work and use up vacation time, it eats up any time and money I could spend on a social life (HAH), etc. But I’ve always seen the benefit as something more intangible- measuring my progress against talented riders, going on exciting adventures with my horse, and giving me fun goals to work towards. I choose to “vote with my wallet” by going to shows that are well run, and by staying engaged with the governing bodies. I absolutely agree that there is vast room for improvement in the structure of the competition environment, but I have a tough time thinking of it as a cost/benefit scenario since for me the costs are high but the benefits are more intangible.

[blondewithchrome]

For most of us, I would venture to guess, there is no actual ROI for showing unless there are a few cases: you have a sales horse getting mileage to increase value and make some $$$ on said horse or, you have a world beater who can earn back his entry fees every week and then some. As a relatively cash-strapped Ammy, showing local and state level medals and equitation, there is absolutely no cost-benefit for me since neither of these are, or ever will be, the case. (LOL, but am I also crying?? I can’t tell).

I do it for the emotional benefit. I love the thrill of being competitive and trying my skills at different venues against different riders. It gives me space to test my work, and have fun with my barn and trainers. It’s hard to put a price tag on that.

[flaxenfilly23]

The benefit of going to horse shows is largely non-tangible. I think for the majority of people who compete, the cost-benefit is a positive one. That doesn’t mean you’ll ever make money or break even. Quite the opposite for most of us, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t worth the money. I can’t put a value on the fact that I have a competitive hobby that gives me motivation to go out in the cold and train vs becoming a couch potato in the winter. I can’t put a dollar amount on the time I get to spend with friends who pursue the same hobby as I do. There is no money in the world that can replace the feeling of accomplishment I feel when I compete with a horse that I alone have developed. When that cost-benefit relationship becomes inverted is the time when most people chose to spend their money elsewhere.

[findeight]

There is no tangible benefit for most, it’s a hobby, a sport, not a business or job. Would guess 95%+ of participants in any sport ir hobby did not get into it for any tangible benefit. If they can make a few bucks or take deductions, that’s gravy and not why they got into the sport.

Its not the only stupid expensive sport either. Airplanes, boats and race cars get up there too. Thise people are not in it for the money either. Competitive ice skating and skiing aren’t budget friendly either. No price tag on passion.

[GoodTimes]

I don’t think there was ever a time where most competitors made money at horseshows.

This past season I showed my horse and catch rode my moms horse at the B level (6 shows). They finished the season 1st and 2nd in the AA’s. At every show we won back our class fees, but not stalls, admin fees, shipping, etc.
Next year I’ll only show my horse at one or two A shows. I’m prepared to not win any money back, and I know my entry fees will be higher.

For us it’s a fun way to get off property, to get myself and the horses dressed up. My mom has been my number 1 groom for almost 30 years. She’s only ever missed 2 shows, even when I lived across the country. A big part of showing is spending time together.

It also teaches everyone, not just kids, to be gracious in victory and defeat.

[costco_muffins]

I do it for the social benefits. My horse show family is amazing and I love working alongside them.

I do it because I believe in giving back. If the series I run didn’t exist, the financial support for our major urban horse park would dissipate.

I do it to share the love of horses. There were many many people who helped me on my path of learning about horses. I do it to honor them and teach the next generation.

I do it because I enjoy challenging myself and my horses. It is exciting to see how I have progressed and to see if I am improving. I go to clinics for the same reasons.

[greysfordays]

I was in France for the Longines Masters last week, which is held in the same venue as the Salon de Cheval. While the masters were great, honestly, the pony jumper classes might have been even better. The stands were full of people cheering these tiny kids riding unruly ponies who hadn’t seen a needle or lunge line in quite a long time. There were quite a few spills. The matter of fact way the kids got up and collected their horses made me think it was a pretty regular occurrence.

I think for these kids, they are learning about how to deal with pressure, how to be a graceful loser, how to be disciplined enough to attack your goals, how to get yourself up when you fall. Basically, grit.

As an adult, I’m definitely with flaxenfilly, part of the joy for me is being surrounded by other horse crazy folks and supporting them and being supported. The community feeling can be really powerful. But you better believe if my son ever decides to ride I’ll be aiming him at pony jumpers and maybe sending him to Europe for a summer horse camp if there is such a thing.

[Calvincrowe]

But why do other disciplines (think breed) have benefits for showing even for amateurs? (prizes are plentiful, useful and can be very impressive- saddles, blankets, trailers.).

Why can’t the H/J world reach that level? How do they do it? What are we missing?

I show for many of the benefits others posted above. I am competitive and enjoy the chance to challenge myself against others. It is social, and fun and despite the cost, I continue to do it. I just wish that our governing bodies would address those questions.

[Mac123]

I don’t think “cost-benefit” is the best term to use because it immediately gets people thinking strictly in terms of finances.

I think the better word to use is product value because it combines financial aspects with other tangible and intangible benefits.

In other words, 15 years ago when the A shows were still for those showing at 3’ and above, there was an intangible value provided knowing you were skilled enough to be there and knowing that a ribbon won meant something. That value made it (more) worth the cost (which was considerably less than it is now).

Or in other disciplines, such as barrel racing, which offers many more prizes of various sorts, the value of the chance of winning those prizes makes the financial aspect more worth it. The western disciplines oftentimes have cars, trailers, trucks, saddles, buckles, etc. for prizes both at regular shows and as year-end or finals prizes.

Or in dressage, where one can qualify for regional finals with three scores at rated shows, the value of having a finals to work for and attend makes the cost worth it. Being able to say you qualified and went to regionals (even if you don’t place) is worth something. In the H/J world, the finals are all for the people who show the most, not those who ride the best.

Etc.

What we see in the H/J industry is the value of the product decrease while the price for the product increases.

This is an unsustainable trend for all but the wealthy who can afford to show regardless of the value or price.

[WildLittleWren]

For me showing is a way to track my progress and my horse’s progress, as well as it is fun and a hobby…something I enjoy doing. I don’t do it for any tangible reasons, more just a way to make sure my riding and training is moving in the right direction

[Jumping31]

Showing is expensive but it can be quite rewarding and a realistic goal to achieve.
I started off showing but now I only enter for the fun of it or if I feel confident to breeze through a course. Ultimately, bad experiences and putting pressure on myself to nearly cause anxiety attacks is my main reason but I’ve been plenty fulfilled by just developing and growing as a rider without the pressure of shows.

[pds]

So the intangibles outweigh the spiraling costs and negative show experiences that people are posting about?

There is no need to stop the mega shows from gobbling up dates, spiraling costs and limiting show choices?

[rockonxox]

I show local and it is fun. I enjoy showing at the schooling shows. I can’t do them all the time because of finances, but when I do I have a good time. There are prizes given out for CH/RCH at many of the H/J shows I attend that are affiliated with our local association. You’ve also got the year end awards. While I don’t show enough for the year end, I have won tubs of horse treats at the shows and would love to win one of the saddle pads. Is it worth the money? For me, yes, I enjoy when I show. It’s the experience and seeing how my horse and I have progressed.

[flaxenfilly23]

@pds

So the intangibles outweigh the spiraling costs and negative show experiences that people are posting about?

For most people, currently, yes. That isn’t to say the tide isn’t shifting. Those people who have had negative show experiences are more likely to switch disciplines or stop showing altogether. If that becomes an often enough occurrence, or if costs keep rising and pricing people out of showing, I think you’ll start to see show numbers drop. It is then up to the organization to either create incentives to bring people back or stick their head in the sand in the hopes it is just a temporary lull.

[BeeHoney]

@Mac123

I don’t think “cost-benefit” is the best term to use because it immediately gets people thinking strictly in terms of finances.

I think the better word to use is product value because it combines financial aspects with other tangible and intangible benefits.

In other words, 15 years ago when the A shows were still for those showing at 3’ and above, there was an intangible value provided knowing you were skilled enough to be there and knowing that a ribbon won meant something. That value made it (more) worth the cost (which was considerably less than it is now).

Or in other disciplines, such as barrel racing, which offers many more prizes of various sorts, the value of the chance of winning those prizes makes the financial aspect more worth it. The western disciplines oftentimes have cars, trailers, trucks, saddles, buckles, etc. for prizes both at regular shows and as year-end or finals prizes.

Or in dressage, where one can qualify for regional finals with three scores at rated shows, the value of having a finals to work for and attend makes the cost worth it. Being able to say you qualified and went to regionals (even if you don’t place) is worth something. In the H/J world, the finals are all for the people who show the most, not those who ride the best.

Etc.

What we see in the H/J industry is the value of the product decrease while the price for the product increases.

This is an unsustainable trend for all but the wealthy who can afford to show regardless of the value or price.

I agree that the value is a better word. Most people don’t horse show for profit, it is a recreational activity. Nonetheless, people like to feel that their money is well spent. Maybe they have a great time and feel like the week was a very fun experience. Others enjoy the experience but also feel good about adding value to a project horse or having the chance to win back some of their expenses via prize money.

There gets to be a point, though, where at $1000-3000 per show, I think it gets a little less fun. That’s not even counting the cost of the horse, the cost of keeping the horse at a fancy show barn, etc. A bad show (horse does poorly, bad weather, a fall) and it’s easy to reflect on why on earth you are spending all this money. At that price tag, people expect results, it’s not about grit and/or just going in the ring and having a good time.

I had a wry laugh at your comment about how the A shows used to be. Right now, the people who show at A shows are a very rarefied group, but it is not a group determined by ability or talent. Instead, it’s a very highly self selected group of wealthy people who are willing to spend huge amounts of money on horses and showing. I would venture to say that the competition at A shows is greatly watered down by the fact that many excellent riders choose not to show due to the cost. If someone tells me they show at the A level, that is more of a financial statement than a skill statement.

[Mac123]

@pds

So the intangibles outweigh the spiraling costs and negative show experiences that people are posting about?

There is no need to stop the mega shows from gobbling up dates, spiraling costs and limiting show choices?

I don’t think that’s an accurate read of this whatsoever.

I think it’s clear that the value of rated shows has decreased. Value is comprised of tangibles (prize money, year end awards, etc.) and intangibles (recognition, feeling like you’ve accomplished something, atmosphere, etc.). Concurrently, price has increased.

Value has absolutely decreased, and for many people, they compete less or compete on a “just for fun” basis because there’s no chance of winning a year end award.

The industry may not feel this yet because there are a startling amount of wealthy people who can still afford to pay the obscene costs associated with regularly attending the A shows and mega circuits.

If you read the feedback closely in this thread, especially if you combine it with the other thread regarding what people would change about showing, it most certainly is an issue.

The question is whether the industry thinks its an issue before the economy bottoms out or something and it is forced to feel it.

[Training_Cupid]

@BeeHoney

Right now, the people who show at A shows are a very rarefied group, but it is not a group determined by ability or talent. Instead, it’s a very highly self selected group of wealthy people who are willing to spend huge amounts of money on horses and showing. I would venture to say that the competition at A shows is greatly watered down by the fact that many excellent riders choose not to show due to the cost. If someone tells me they show at the A level, that is more of a financial statement than a skill statement.

I both disagree and take offense at this statement. Sure, there are plenty of wealthy people showing. There are also many others who drive older cars and forgo vacations so they can go to a few shows a year. We generally have no idea what someone else’s situation truly is. People can choose to spend their own money (or acquire debt as the case may be) however they choose.

It’s the same among non-horse people, some live paycheck to paycheck yet carry a Birkin or LV bag, and have the newest iPhone. Again, their choice. Who cares? It’s not hurting you. If you want to show and find a way to afford it, go for it! If you think showing is not worth the cost, there are plenty of other ways to enjoy your horse.

[Mac123]

@Training Cupid

I both disagree and take offense at this statement. Sure, there are plenty of wealthy people showing. There are also many others who drive older cars and forgo vacations so they can go to a few shows a year. We generally have no idea what someone else’s situation truly is. People can choose to spend their own money (or acquire debt as the case may be) however they choose.

It’s the same among non-horse people, some live paycheck to paycheck yet carry a Birkin or LV bag, and have the newest iPhone. Again, their choice. Who cares? It’s not hurting you. If you want to show and find a way to afford it, go for it! If you think showing is not worth the cost, there are plenty of other ways to enjoy your horse.

I don’t think @BeeHoney 's comment was directed towards people who scrape together (in whatever way) to show at a few A shows per year. I interpreted her comment as being towards those who are regularly showing on the A circuit. Even someone who shows one horse at 12 shows a year is looking at $30k just in show costs, and there are many, many people who are showing more than that with multiple horses. I think we all can agree that having the disposable income to spend $30k just on horse shows means one is not in the average, middle class, as most are.