Cost of Veterinary Care - a Vent

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE=Unfforgettable;7380775]
Pet insurance can be a big help, but it is reimbursement, and you still have to pony up the cash to pay the vet bill up front, then wait for the insurance to reimburse you for their share.

I’m amazed at the difference in costs for the same procedure. One example: A standard C-section. My regular, local vet? $650. The vet I use when I’m in Oklahoma? $350. The vet I used to use half an hour from here? $1250. And the after hours emergency clinic? $3100 (and that’s not a typo). Having been through one at each of these clinics I can say there is absolutely no difference in the serves provided…just in the cost.[/QUOTE]

Check ot the cost of a C-section for a human…

[Anne_FS]

$20 for a 5-cent sponge is a bit much, although probably human doctors & hospitals have even bigger mark-ups, but how can veterinary hospitals even run if they don’t mark-up their things? How long would a veterinary hospital be able to survive if they charged a tiny bit above cost for everything? They’d all be closed within 2 years, esp. now that most of us have taken away routine vaccinations, flea treatments, heartworm meds, etc. because we get all these online or at subsidized clinics.

I don’t like paying big vet bills either, but how do they make enough to pay for their techs and equipment, let alone the building, x-ray machines, ultrasound machines, and the million other things they pay on.

[Horsegal984]

[QUOTE=Fessy’s Mom;7381110]
And you can’t really compare the care of an animal kept in a cage to recover and a very needy, whiny patient constantly calling the nurse for attention. LOL![/QUOTE]

You’ve obviously never worked in a veterinary ICU setting. It’s no less demanding than a human ICU. Animals wake up dysphoric, chew IV lines, soil bedding repeatedly, spin in circles and tangle/occlude IV lines, need bi-hourly vitals checked, pain meds adjusted, hand feedings, etc.

Like another poster mentioned, the clinics charging $15 for overnight ‘hospitalization’ do not actually have staff in the clinic overnight. This means no medications are given overnight, in some clinics this means the IV fluids are turned off for the night. In other clinics they leave the IV pumps on and running unattended, which is a VERY scary practice to me. While those pumps are pretty good, they can malfunction and if the animal becomes fluid overloaded overnight there is no one there to stop the pump and address any problems that arise. I’ve seen pumps not run fluids at all even though they are on, I’ve seen pumps malfunction and run way too many fluids and the worst I’ve seen was a pump that failed to alarm/shut off when the bag emptied and ran AIR into a patient. Had there not been staff in the building when these occurred those animals could easily have died.

Honestly if the hospital isn’t staffed overnight there’s really no reason a critical animal should stay there. 1) it’s not getting any actual care, and 2) if its home being monitored by owners they can recognize if it takes a turn for the worst and take it to the emergency clinic. Much preferable than getting the “found dead in cage” phone call.

[Horsegal984]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;7381623]
Check ot the cost of a C-section for a human…[/QUOTE]

As of 4 years ago it was $25,000. Suddenly the $1500-2500 estimate doesn’t sound so bad at the speciality clinic…

[Marshfield]

I don’t have dental insurance. I had had a cleaning within the past year, plus I do of course brush daily. My cleaning in November, with bite wing radiographs cost me $280 dollars. I, of course, do not need anesthesia. Many veterinary practices now have the capacity to take dental radiographs as that is where the standard of care is heading. So, considering the need for anesthesia, and the length of time between cleanings (and many animal cleanings take way longer than mine did), I have a hard time viewing a quote in the $400 to $600 range as being unreasonable once you consider all that is involved.

[rugbygirl]

Our low-cost spay and neuter clinic seems to be low-cost mainly due to lower overheads and volume. They only do one thing, and they have an assembly-line type procedure for admissions. I don’t think they are subsidized at all. These are not incentive-type programs targeted at low-income owners though.

For routine surgical procedures, I am not opposed to this care model. The more often a surgeon repeats the same procedure, the better he gets.

The vets that I deal with seem to recognize that regardless of how much a pet is loved/cherished, the owners have to be financially responsible for their situation. I am happy to pay a fair price for veterinary services…but in the City where I used to live, it was a bit ridiculous. It was cheaper to pack up the animal and drive 500km than to go to the local vet. The nice part about Veterinary medicine is that you definitely have a choice though.

[SquishTheBunny]

I did NOT read all the replies - but when people talk about cost they must be reminded that often times (not always) they get what they pay for. There is gold standard medicine, reasonable medicine and sketchy medicine.

Low cost clinics will save money by:

• re using syringes
• not placing animals on IV fluids during procedures
• sharing IV bags between patients
• using non licenced technicians
• minimal, or out of date monitoring equipment
• no overnight care for patients
• no pre-post op antibiotics or pain management
• blood machines without quality control
• non sterilized surgery equipment

I wouldn’t hesitate to use cheaper clinics for basics like vaccines.

Gold standard medicine WILL no doubt be higher in cost, and in emergency or surgical situations its often important to go this route IF you want the best chance of your patient getting better.

• board certified specialists on staff
• equipment such as digital xray, CT, MRI, fluoro, ultrasound endoscopy, arthroscopy, dialysis units
• multi-modal anesthetic monitoring equipment including invasive arterial blood pressure monitoring, Capnography, SpO2, etc. certified anesthesia technicians
• many types of anesthetics, pain management etc.
• overnight or ICU care
• CPR and triage centres

Clearly, one will cost more than another. Its not saying one is better in one situation vs. another - but its like comparing apples to oranges.

I have seen foreign body surgeries done for $1500, and others done at $10,000+ due to sepsis, perforations, dehiscence, etc.

[SquishTheBunny]

[QUOTE=Fessy’s Mom;7381375]
Justmyluck - you’re missing my point that the same service should cost the same (or relatively close) all over. A BMW in CA costs pretty much what it costs in FL, same with your prime rib, so that argument doesn’t hold water. But a C-section in one state is $350 and $1250 in another? Why?[/QUOTE]

Its probably not $350 statewide - it was probably a specific clinic that maybe didn’t have expensive equipment or well trained staff (better staff costs more!). I would be shocked to hear that for $350 a dog received:

• Pre-op radiographs to confirm # of pups
  -pre op blood check (pH, lactate, electrolytes)
• IV catheter and fluids
• propofol induction and CRI set up for pre-puppy anesthesia
• registered tech with good quality multi-modal monitoring equipment
• isoflurane, dopamine and opioid for post puppy removal
• surgery cost
• recovery/resuscitation for pups

I would be hard pressed to think that all of this could be done for $350. But - yes, everywhere is different. Everything including salary for support staff needs to be taken into account.

[SquishTheBunny]

[QUOTE=Coyoteco;7381578]
Well, I took a feral kitten in for surgery and got a quoted of $5000. Thevet gave me a written estimate. I had it reviewed and all the things you would expect from a not-straight-forward operation appeared on the estimate including a charge of a sponge of $20 when I know for a fact it cost .05 so it’s not all about real costs.

The bottom line is that vets should get paid but they should try to minimize the work, work with the owner to minimize that cost. If you are charging $20 for something that cost you $.05 or requiring that things be done that are not necessary or that can competently be done by the owner, you are doing a disservice not only to your patient but to all animals.

I did have the surgery on the kitten, but not by that vet. Funny thing is that the expensive part was post op, and the exact same post op services were used by both vets.[/QUOTE]

Sorry…made me giggle just a little. A “sponge” generally isn’t like a kitchen sponge and most certainly aren’t $0.05.

Depending on what your cat had surgery for, a sponge is most likely a generic term for multiple lap sponges (about $5 per package, and often 3-10 individual ones are used per surgery.) or a gelfoam sponge, which is quite costly. If only kitchen sponges would do…

[kmwines01]

There shouldn’t be shaming and there should always be options given. There are vets out there who get burned when they give cheaper alternatives then owners berate them for getting a diagnosis wrong when they were working without the ideal information.

I love the idea of giving 3 levels of options, basically gold, silver, bronze. Are you going to get all the Info with rge bronze level? No, but you may be able to get by. Gives everyone options.

Nothing sucks more as a vet than not being able to help due to money but you still have to pay yourself. I’ve known vets who can charge less because they had a wealthy spouse but that’s not common.

Also finding a vet with wellness packages can help offset many of the routine costs. CSU’ s wellness package for a puppy is 109, which includes all routine vax and vax associated appointments.

[Dressage_Fancy]

[QUOTE=Fessy’s Mom;7380494]
make x it x so - No, not at all! It must be so difficult for you to have to PTS a pet because of prohibitive care costs when it would be an easy fix otherwise. I wonder what kind of line people draw for themselves in those situations.

Anyone?[/QUOTE]

My wonderful veterinary told me that when he went into practice that he made a promise to himself to never be so expensive that people could not afford to own a pet. Yes, some people would (and could afford to) spend major money and would tell him so. But your average family could not and he would do everything he could to treat their pet at a price they could afford. Sadly my wonderful friend and veterinary is gone now and greatly missed by our comunity.

[kmwines01]

It’s interesting to see this conversation on a horse forum where people routinely discuss buying 1200-5000 saddles like it’s no big deal and within a community that routinely spends 60-200 a month on shoes for their equine partners. Companion animal spending often seems like a lot because it’s often in one shot but our equine friends often are much more expensive without any consideration of vet care.

[SquishTheBunny]

Veterinary care costs are the #1 reason why breeders and vets should recommend pet insurance to their clients.

If your 8 month old Golden Retriever ate a sock out of your laundry basket (because you didn’t close the lid), gets obstructed and requires a $2500 surgery - this is no reason to euthanize.

If you can get health insurance for yourself, or your child - you should be able to get it for your pet IF you can not afford the cost of such care for a fixable condition.

Now, new pet owners probably don’t know that there is such thing as pet insurance so they can not be blamed for not having it.

Pet insurance has given thousands, if not millions of pets a second chance on emergency surgeries and treatments.

[cowboymom]

I’m not a wealthy horse owner. I have horses but my saddles are either midrange or ones that we saved for or got a good deal on them. My husband learned to do farrier work b/c it was too expensive to hire it out. We save money where we can and can’t spend it foolishly, or excessively.

People on COTH often assume that horse people are rich people and it’s not always the case.

[Coyoteco]

[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;7381865]
Sorry…made me giggle just a little. A “sponge” generally isn’t like a kitchen sponge and most certainly aren’t $0.05.

Depending on what your cat had surgery for, a sponge is most likely a generic term for multiple lap sponges (about $5 per package, and often 3-10 individual ones are used per surgery.) or a gelfoam sponge, which is quite costly. If only kitchen sponges would do…[/QUOTE]

Sorry Squish. This time that is what it was. I was going to pay the $5000 but not without expert review beforehand. The markup on the sponge was not my assessment. It was an assessment by others who would qualify as experts.

That doesn’t mean that all high-priced vets do that, but I also do not agree that cheaper vets cut corners. I’ve dealt with both and there are a lot of high priced vets that I wouldn’t let look at my animal the second time - and it’s not about the money.

To address another post of yours - pet health insurance. I’m interested in knowing more. On horses, when they get older, the insurance stops working as I understand it. Is that not true with pet health insurance. Is it not cheaper in the long run to “self insure”? Perhaps that should be another thread.

eta - the kitten did have the surgery which was successful to repair a diaphragmatic hernia

[Justmyluck]

Id be interested to know how many people who complain about vet care feed super expensive boutique foods.

[Muffin]

[QUOTE=kmwines01;7382176]
It’s interesting to see this conversation on a horse forum where people routinely discuss buying 1200-5000 saddles like it’s no big deal and within a community that routinely spends 60-200 a month on shoes for their equine partners. Companion animal spending often seems like a lot because it’s often in one shot but our equine friends often are much more expensive without any consideration of vet care.[/QUOTE]

Ok, I think I see your point, but look at it this way… Some of us are comparing what it costs for a horse vs what it costs for a companion animal. I’ll use my example again (thanks to the poster who expanded what the service may or may not include):

The vet wanted to keep my cat in a cage for 12 hours and see if he peed again. That was going to cost me $120.

My horse was at the clinic for a few days, and that cost me $35 a night.

When I see $120 for a cat vs $35 for a horse—both of whom I love dearly-- I can’t help but wonder where the huge markup is for a cat? It’s not like he got bedding in a 12x14 stall (cost), gallons and gallons of water (cost), hay (cost) and stall cleanings multiple times a day and night. (I packed his grain ahead of time). He would be in a small cage with a water dish.

Did I say to myself “If I don’t spend the $120 on my cat, it’ll just go to shoes for my horse”? No, I weighed the pros and cons of saving the money and being able to apply it to another visit should he need it.

[kmwines01]

I didn’t mean it as a direct comparison. Just that many horse people don’t view the expenses of their horses in the same way as they do their cats and dogs. And I never said that all people spend that kind of money on saddles, etc. But there are a multitude of threads where people discuss saddles that are more than our used Jeep would sell for.

As for your particular experience, Muffin, it depends on what type of monitoring was happening. Your horse was probably going to be in a stall where somebody checked on him at 11 and then didn’t see him again till 8am. Your cat may have been in a situation where a tech was going to be on all night with him and other animals. I don’t know. But they may not be in any comparable situations.

[Winston_s_Mom]

I’ve never minded paying a premium for vaccines and meds at my vet. He always fit my pets in when I needed a sick appointment. Then he retired and I moved. Found a vet practice I really liked. Took all 4 dogs for establishing visits, did an expensive work up on and treatment on an elderly dog, then adopted a puppy who developed kennel cough. Said puppy already had her establishing visit but when I called for an appointment nothing was open for a week. Explained how sick puppy was and that I am a regular client and they wanted me to go to the ER. I’m not unreasonable, if it was after hours I would have gone to the ER but during office hours they couldn’t see a sick call? I found a local vet who used techs not receptionists to triage calls and brought the puppy right in. Guess who gets my business now? I highly value a vet who knows my animals but what good is it if they can’t manage to see your pet when sick. It’s seems fewer and fewer vets are available when needed so what is the point to paying their prices? My new vet is worth every penny, the old one I regret every cent I gave them

[shayaalliard]

[QUOTE=Justmyluck;7382444]
Id be interested to know how many people who complain about vet care feed super expensive boutique foods.[/QUOTE]

super high quality foods are cheaper to feed, both in reduced volume fed and vastly reduced vet bills, than cheap crap foods.