Cost of Veterinary Care - a Vent

[Beckham03]

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;7381679]
You’ve obviously never worked in a veterinary ICU setting. It’s no less demanding than a human ICU. Animals wake up dysphoric, chew IV lines, soil bedding repeatedly, spin in circles and tangle/occlude IV lines, need bi-hourly vitals checked, pain meds adjusted, hand feedings, etc.

Like another poster mentioned, the clinics charging $15 for overnight ‘hospitalization’ do not actually have staff in the clinic overnight. This means no medications are given overnight, in some clinics this means the IV fluids are turned off for the night. In other clinics they leave the IV pumps on and running unattended, which is a VERY scary practice to me. While those pumps are pretty good, they can malfunction and if the animal becomes fluid overloaded overnight there is no one there to stop the pump and address any problems that arise. I’ve seen pumps not run fluids at all even though they are on, I’ve seen pumps malfunction and run way too many fluids and the worst I’ve seen was a pump that failed to alarm/shut off when the bag emptied and ran AIR into a patient. Had there not been staff in the building when these occurred those animals could easily have died.

Honestly if the hospital isn’t staffed overnight there’s really no reason a critical animal should stay there. 1) it’s not getting any actual care, and 2) if its home being monitored by owners they can recognize if it takes a turn for the worst and take it to the emergency clinic. Much preferable than getting the “found dead in cage” phone call.[/QUOTE]

This. I work in a specialty clinic too. I can not imagine paying for sx only to have them left alone overnight. I interned at a normal clinic and saw a sx patient left alone all night…cath was ripped out, fluids everywhere!

It also costs a small fortune to keep these specialty clinics running and pay for all of the extra staff and equipment. I have seen some of their bills and it is just astonishing what they spend.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I called around to two vets on a small issue with a dog. Both had seen the dog already for other reasons and were familiar with the problem. The first vet I talked to quoted $1000, but he would give me a break on the procedure if I would do it on a certain day and it would be $750. I started laughing on the phone…didn’t mean to, but it just snuck out. The second vet (my horse vet) I talked to said $100 for the same exact procedure.

Kind of a big difference.

My other dog had an obstruction surgery (stomach and intestine) and then serious post-surgery complications. The surgery itself was around $800. This was all after hours, 24 x7 and she was hospitalized for almost a week and then we had weekly follow ups for at least a month. I think the total vet bill was 2000-3000 (I really tried not to add it up) and I spent almost a 1000 on supplies (took over a month to heal the wound, which had opened, and I had to rewrap her whole abdomen 2-4 x daily). I did not feel that these charges were unfair. She received exceptional care and after care from the ER vet team. She was also on a ton of meds, and that added to the bill.

I still haven’t done dog insurance. I’d rather set $100 a month aside in a dog emergency fund for the dog’s life than pay for insurance. That is just me. I would rather self-insure.

Yes, I feed expensive dog food.

[yankeeclipper]

My issue with the VCA vet in 2009 was the lack of alternatives offered and the guilt trip. I was in tears leaving that clinic with a seriously ill animal in a lot of PAIN with NO options.

[starrunner]

Any clinic that gives no options for comfortably managing an animal and just guilt trips needs to be in your past.

That’s why I changed equine vets. Major guilt trip, lots of money for a diagnosis that made little sense. When I asked questions I was told that if I cared I would do it…

Bye bye.

[Ghazzu]

I think part of the issue here is that folks want state of the art medicine at 1980’s prices.

[yankeeclipper]

Everyone’s situation is different. I wasn’t looking for state of the art vet care. Just an affordable option presented in a caring way. Also, keep in mind that I had already paid hundreds of dollars for an emergency visit, plus follow up to routine vet, than the specialist for a diagnosis only to be told that the only option will cost $7k to $9k. I am fortunate that I have a good job that allows me to have animals but the rainy day fund does have its financial limits.

[yankeeclipper]

[QUOTE=starrunner;7383235]
Any clinic that gives no options for comfortably managing an animal and just guilt trips needs to be in your past.

That’s why I changed equine vets. Major guilt trip, lots of money for a diagnosis that made little sense. When I asked questions I was told that if I cared I would do it…

Bye bye.[/QUOTE]

That sounds familiar. I had a similar equine vet experience and I haven’t been back since.

[Horsegal984]

[QUOTE=starrunner;7383235]
Any clinic that gives no options for comfortably managing an animal and just guilt trips needs to be in your past.

That’s why I changed equine vets. Major guilt trip, lots of money for a diagnosis that made little sense. When I asked questions I was told that if I cared I would do it…

Bye bye.[/QUOTE]

Very true. While a clinic should always present the “best option” first there should never be a guilt trip or no alternatives presented if the client cannot afford the “best option.”

[SquishTheBunny]

[QUOTE=yankeeclipper;7383221]
My issue with the VCA vet in 2009 was the lack of alternatives offered and the guilt trip. I was in tears leaving that clinic with a seriously ill animal in a lot of PAIN with NO options.[/QUOTE]

A good vet will always offer options to cases where they can not manage as they would like.
1.) Referral to specialist, or second opinion clinic.
2.) Medical management to the best of their ability, with reiterating that symptomatic treatment may not offer relief/cure - with keeping animal welfare in mind.
3.) euthanasia or surrender

Most clients choose option 2, then if the dog doesn’t get better are presented with option 1/3. A vet should never make anyone feel guilty about either decision.

[JanWeber]

Just so you know, there is really no “financial aid” for vet school. And you study all the time and rotate through clinics, so it’s tough to have a job. So you need to pay tuition and still cover your living expenses. Tuition costs for vet school plus modest living expenses equals $50-$75K per year borrowed at 8% interest. So, four years of vet school leaves you with a bill of $200-$300K. Someday soon, only rich people are going to be able to be vets. And, in a recession, veterinary care is one of the discretionary items that some people MUST cut back on. Daughter’s a new vet -going to be many years before she/we are out of vet school tuition debt.

[Casey09]

[QUOTE=JanWeber;7384162]
Just so you know, there is really no “financial aid” for vet school. And you study all the time and rotate through clinics, so it’s tough to have a job. So you need to pay tuition and still cover your living expenses. Tuition costs for vet school plus modest living expenses equals $50-$75K per year borrowed at 8% interest. So, four years of vet school leaves you with a bill of $200-$300K. Someday soon, only rich people are going to be able to be vets. And, in a recession, veterinary care is one of the discretionary items that some people MUST cut back on. Daughter’s a new vet -going to be many years before she/we are out of vet school tuition debt.[/QUOTE]

All the best to her! As an animal lover I know that we need them and that they have all worked very hard to become vets. I do wish there were more aid opportunities because I think that a lot of young animal lovers would love being a vet.

[SuckerForHorses]

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7381600]
I have an extremely low cost vet.

His charge for neutering a cat is a six pack of beer.

He neutered and vaccinated my dog for $90.
The nearby clinics wanted $450.

He does my horse’s coffin joint injection for $90.
The last vet I asked about it quoted “around $400” for the same thing.

I once walked out of there after getting two horses’ teeth done and all three dogs their vaccines and heartworm tests for $200 total. Just one horse’s teeth is $250 by the barn vet.

This vet has also stated to me that he won’t get out of bed for less than $1,500 a day, so I don’t think he is poor.

I have a really hard time swallowing that $450 neutering bill (in a geographical area where my 15 year mortgage is $600) when I can drive 15 minutes down the road and get great, personal service for $90 and the vet assures me he is doing juuuuuuusst fine financially.[/QUOTE]

Last summer I had a kitty show up at my barn and he still had his twigs and berries in tact. I didn’t want him spraying all over my barn if he stuck around, and he should’ve been fixed anyhow, so I asked my horse vet how much to neuter the little fella when he was going to be at the barn a few days later for spring shots.

He told me he would neuter him for $19.95

And he was serious.

Little Kitteh must’ve heard the word “neuter” because he took off and I never saw him again, so he got to keep his twigs and berries :lol:

[Justmyluck]

There is a lot more to becoming a veterinarian than just loving animals. The guilt trip people experience from their veterinarians is far less than the veterinarians get from owners. I teched for three years before starting vet school and the number of calls related to owners wanting care for nothing. People screaming at me that I was a murderer because we wouldn’t treat their animals. I’ve been told I was in the wrong profession because it was obvious I didn’t love animals. Sorry you should have brought your dog in on the first day of diarrhea not after it had been having bloody diarrhea for 4 days.

[spotteddrafter]

Such a timely topic for me.

This past August my dogs experienced the complete failure of FrontLine, and brought fleas into the house - my home with 4 indoor-only cats in it. I treated everyone with Dawn baths, CapStar pills, applied new topical (Advantage for cats, Advantix II for dogs), and treated my house multiple times with Mycodex spray (combined with lots and lots of vacuuming). The fleas didn’t stand a chance.

Fast forward to now - I see evidence of tapeworm in one of my cats. <sigh> I called the vet to get the needed meds and was told I had to bring him in first. Okay, fine - figured they’d need to do some sort of test to confirm. Only, I get him there and there is no test - they saw what I saw (what looked like a small piece of rice on his bum) and confirmed tapeworm. They then combed and combed and combed him for fleas - even when I told them repeatedly that he doesn’t have them. Couldn’t find any, but wanted to apply Revolution anyway - um, no - not when I can get it from my horse vet for half that price. Also, since my cats are all indoor only, I choose not to do annual vaccines on them. The vet was insistent on starting a series of vaccines on him - no thanks! All of mine get their kitten shots and testing, but they are indoor only - they do not have exposure to anything! No shots please. Then, the vet was insistent that a scabby spot my kitty had near his ear was ringworm and wanted to do a scrape and analysis. I know what ringworm looks like in cats, it wasn’t ringworm. Add to the fact that I watched him actually get the scratch - he and my other male cat were running, jumping and wrestling. It happens. So, I ask the vet - I have 3 others at home, can you please send me home with tapeworm pills for them just in case? NOPE - if we haven’t seen them in over a year, you will have to bring them in. Why? They aren’t going to get vaccinated, I won’t allow you to charge me double for the Advantage, and none of them have any health issues. She still said no, and in fact wanted to see my kitty back in 2 weeks for a recheck. For what exactly, it’s a tapeworm!

I’ve been a client of this clinic/vet for 10 years and I’m done. I called my equine vet and he got me the very same tapeworm meds, no questions asked, for less than half of what I was charged at the clinic. Even after I turned down all the “extras” they wanted to do, my bill was still $165! For tapeworm! I get it, there are probably a lot of people out there who don’t take good care of their animals, who don’t understand that they might be sick or injured or need vet care, and rely on the vet to tell them exactly what to do all the time. I’m not that person.

[Justmyluck]

If you want a prescription medication. Your animal must be examined. You can’t walk into your doctor and demand a medication. You can get an OTC tape medication, it is less effective but no exam needed. I suggest you do that next time otherwise your animals will need an exam. Also pray your cats never bite a stranger or get out of the house and have no rabies vaccines.

[rugbygirl]

[QUOTE=Justmyluck;7385094]
If you want a prescription medication. Your animal must be examined. You can’t walk into your doctor and demand a medication. You can get an OTC tape medication, it is less effective but no exam needed. I suggest you do that next time otherwise your animals will need an exam. Also pray your cats never bite a stranger or get out of the house and have no rabies vaccines.[/QUOTE]

I was curious about that part…the dewormer we used to use on our house cat was available at pet stores…I haven’t had a cat to deworm for tapeworm for over 10 years though, so things have changed? The stuff we had worked quite well, and our vet at the time recommended it…he said that if the case was stubborn, we could move to the prescription “big guns.” The product worked well, besides the annoying fact that our cat was huge and the dosages were so tiny that we needed to break open like 6 capsules at a time for him.

I do wish there were more aid opportunities because I think that a lot of young animal lovers would love being a vet

I wish that people would give more consideration to the fact that ‘loving animals’ is not really the best driver to become a vet. Much like ‘loving people’ is not the best driver to go to medical school. I love animals too…and the thought of dealing with sick/hurt ones all day every day makes me depressed. There’s no way I’d be happy with my life if I was constantly around animals in pain. A vet also largely deals with HUMANS, not so much animals. I know that at most of my vet visits, the animal arrives in a crate (generally happy), spends a few minutes suffering the indignity of rectal thermometers and whatever else we’re there for (generally unhappy at this point), then returns to the crate (often whining (dogs) or growling in the sub-bass range (cat)) and the longest stretch of time is spent on follow-up instructions and billing. THAT’S the day-to-day reality for vets.

There are plenty of careers for animal lovers to choose…I’m glad that vet school is exclusive and has crazy entrance requirements. It should not be the go-to career for young animal lovers.

While I’ve worked with some AWESOME vets, it definitely takes a special skillset…and honestly, most of those skills have nothing to do with loving/caring about animals.

[Justmyluck]

I cant quote on my phone. There is a prescription tape medication and an OTC one. If you go to the vet for the medicine they only stock the prescription. So you need an exam for that medication.

[rugbygirl]

So you need an exam for that medication.

Which makes complete sense. I would be horrified if a vet (or human doctor) wrote a prescription for a patient they hadn’t seen.

[Casey09]

[QUOTE=rugbygirl;7385127]
I was curious about that part…the dewormer we used to use on our house cat was available at pet stores…I haven’t had a cat to deworm for tapeworm for over 10 years though, so things have changed? The stuff we had worked quite well, and our vet at the time recommended it…he said that if the case was stubborn, we could move to the prescription “big guns.” The product worked well, besides the annoying fact that our cat was huge and the dosages were so tiny that we needed to break open like 6 capsules at a time for him.

I wish that people would give more consideration to the fact that ‘loving animals’ is not really the best driver to become a vet. Much like ‘loving people’ is not the best driver to go to medical school. I love animals too…and the thought of dealing with sick/hurt ones all day every day makes me depressed. There’s no way I’d be happy with my life if I was constantly around animals in pain. A vet also largely deals with HUMANS, not so much animals. I know that at most of my vet visits, the animal arrives in a crate (generally happy), spends a few minutes suffering the indignity of rectal thermometers and whatever else we’re there for (generally unhappy at this point), then returns to the crate (often whining (dogs) or growling in the sub-bass range (cat)) and the longest stretch of time is spent on follow-up instructions and billing. THAT’S the day-to-day reality for vets.

There are plenty of careers for animal lovers to choose…I’m glad that vet school is exclusive and has crazy entrance requirements. It should not be the go-to career for young animal lovers.

While I’ve worked with some AWESOME vets, it definitely takes a special skillset…and honestly, most of those skills have nothing to do with loving/caring about animals.[/QUOTE]
I definitely agree that standards should be high and that not everyone who loves animals should be a vet. What I meant was that it is so difficult financially for some really good students to go to vet school and the cost is so high. I don’t think that schools should be accepting less competent applicants. I do think that vets in private practice rather than research should have a genuine affinity for animals. I fear sometimes that there may eventually be too few vets because if the cost of the training and return on investment.

[rugbygirl]

I live in Canada, so I think that I probably have a little bit different perception of University cost than someone in the US…so my comments may not apply to what you’re talking about…although our Professional programs (Law, Medicine, Dentistry, Veterinary) cost considerably more than other programs. When I was at school, tuition for a full course load in Science was around $5000 per year, while tuition for one year of Dentistry was $20,000.

That’s just tuition.

Engineering is also a little pricier than the standard programs, though not as bad…we don’t have to pay for the same types of clinic facilities that the MD programs do, and most of our Laboratory space is Industry-funded. There’s a lot of industry money available in my part of Canada for engineering research.

I don’t come from a wealthy background at all, and it was a struggle to pay for my Engineering degree…but I did well and the hiring prospects for my degree were excellent. It was also the hardest I’ve ever worked, and not just the school part. I graduated with some debt and paid it off in under 3 years. Now, at 6 years out, my husband (also an engineer) and I are not looking at becoming wealthy. We’d be further ahead financially if we’d both gone into welding after High School. Not to mention we’d be much closer to retirement. But we didn’t choose Engineering strictly for financial gain. The “price” we get for our services is determined by what the market will bear. To a large extent, this is true of veterinarians as well. Hence why the vet in Fort McMurray could charge several hundred percent more than the ones down in Red Deer…people had the money and were living in a remote area. Market economy.

Professional programs are for people who not only have the talent and willingness to work…but also the resourcefulness and economic sense to make them feasible. Most professional programs set their fees along some formula that correlates to earning potential and market demand for the position. Scholarships are available too, at least in Canada. That’s really as it should be, IMO. The cost and availability of the schooling for Professional Programs needs to be closely linked to the market conditions for that Profession.