Cost of Veterinary Care - a Vent

[Coyoteco]

Can anyone explain to me why Dontral is by prescription only?

I actually have an issue with so many medications and tests - human and animal - being by prescription only. At one time some vets would charge a $10 prescription fee for their normal animal clients. OP -eta. not op, but spotteddrafter - went to her normal vet of ten years and had that experience which is indefensible for the vet/veterinary association. They are harming animals and they know it.

eta: and how many of you have prescription horse meds on hand for emergencies?

[rugbygirl]

eta: and how many of you have prescription horse meds on hand for emergencies?

The only meds I have on-hand are current and for horses that the vet sees on a regular basis. I wouldn’t have it any other way, honestly. I’ve had horses react badly to OTC and prescription meds before, there’s no way I’d keep drugs “on hand” and give them to a horse without consulting a vet…one who knew the horse and could make a judgment call/risk assessment.

Usually if you have a relationship with a vet (or human doctor, for humans) and you WANT to have medication on hand, they can accommodate that request. But this needs to be an animal that they are familiar with and they need to have confidence that the owner will listen to instructions and identify when to use the medication properly…and it will always be at the discretion of the practitioner. There’s a thousand reasons for them to refuse to accommodate a particular request. They aren’t likely doing it just to be assholes.

When I went travelling in Asia for 4 months, I carried 5 or 6 ‘just in case’ prescriptions for a variety of common travel ailments. I discussed my plans with my doctor, and they were happy to come up with a wellness plan for my trip, with written instructions on when/how to use the medications, and when/how to consult local medical professionals.

[Coyoteco]

[QUOTE=spotteddrafter;7385036]
Such a timely topic for me.

This past August my dogs experienced the complete failure of FrontLine, and brought fleas into the house - my home with 4 indoor-only cats in it. I treated everyone with Dawn baths, CapStar pills, applied new topical (Advantage for cats, Advantix II for dogs), and treated my house multiple times with Mycodex spray (combined with lots and lots of vacuuming). The fleas didn’t stand a chance.

Fast forward to now - I see evidence of tapeworm in one of my cats. <sigh> I called the vet to get the needed meds and was told I had to bring him in first. Okay, fine - figured they’d need to do some sort of test to confirm. Only, I get him there and there is no test - they saw what I saw (what looked like a small piece of rice on his bum) and confirmed tapeworm. They then combed and combed and combed him for fleas - even when I told them repeatedly that he doesn’t have them. Couldn’t find any, but wanted to apply Revolution anyway - um, no - not when I can get it from my horse vet for half that price. Also, since my cats are all indoor only, I choose not to do annual vaccines on them. The vet was insistent on starting a series of vaccines on him - no thanks! All of mine get their kitten shots and testing, but they are indoor only - they do not have exposure to anything! No shots please. Then, the vet was insistent that a scabby spot my kitty had near his ear was ringworm and wanted to do a scrape and analysis. I know what ringworm looks like in cats, it wasn’t ringworm. Add to the fact that I watched him actually get the scratch - he and my other male cat were running, jumping and wrestling. It happens. So, I ask the vet - I have 3 others at home, can you please send me home with tapeworm pills for them just in case? NOPE - if we haven’t seen them in over a year, you will have to bring them in. Why? They aren’t going to get vaccinated, I won’t allow you to charge me double for the Advantage, and none of them have any health issues. She still said no, and in fact wanted to see my kitty back in 2 weeks for a recheck. For what exactly, it’s a tapeworm!

I’ve been a client of this clinic/vet for 10 years and I’m done. I called my equine vet and he got me the very same tapeworm meds, no questions asked, for less than half of what I was charged at the clinic. Even after I turned down all the “extras” they wanted to do, my bill was still $165! For tapeworm! I get it, there are probably a lot of people out there who don’t take good care of their animals, who don’t understand that they might be sick or injured or need vet care, and rely on the vet to tell them exactly what to do all the time. I’m not that person.[/QUOTE]

On the above, this is the post to which I was responding, not the op.

I still ask, why is Dontral a prescription drug?

[kbennett322]

I can commiserate.

Came upon this post and can commiserate with the expense aspect of pet ownership. It’s been a rough year for me vet bill wise, my dog was diagnosed with pulomary hypertension in March 2013 after multiple visits to my regular vet, an internist and a cardiologist. We did blood work, abdominal x-rays, abdominal ultrasounds, 2 EKGs and 2 cardiac ultrasounds The final total was almost $3K. Luckily i was in a place where i had the money. The dog is now on medication to the tune of $100 a month and is doing OK.

On top of that - I truly feel like my vet and their techs tried to use shaming techniques on me in order to get add ons during my dog’s most recent yearly physical/vaccinations. Since when have veterinary practices turned into car salesman?? It was a side of them i had never seen before.

At our last vist - they tried to upsell me on senior pet bloodwork when i had done a full panel less than 6 mos. before (see above list of tests), teeth cleaning under anasthesia after mentioning how good her teeth look for a 10+ year old ( no thought to the fact that MY DOG HAS A HEART CONDITION and was not going under anasthesia for anything but the gravest of health concerns), and 3 more vaccinations than were required even though i told them i was only there for distemper and rabies. When i told them no to the offered treatments i was met with a look of disdain, a lecture on what is considered typical and basic care for a pet at this clinic, followed by a practiced silence (which i interpreted as an opportunity to see the light and change my mind).

Nope, sorry, i may be a bad pet mom, but the BS has only caused them to lose a client.

I am lucky that I have quite a bit of knowledge from previous jobs in the field, years of animal ownership, and a degree in animal science that i was able to stand my ground and only let them provide the services asked for. I can only imagine what some poor soul with less experience but good intentions goes through when essentially accused of being a bad pet owner because they are only able to provide basic care.

Sorry for the novel.

[rugbygirl]

You know, I’ve never gotten the salesman treatment from a small-animal vet. From some of the TECHS, yes. The odd receptionist too. I’ve met plenty with a superior attitude who were happy to sermonize at owners.

Never the actual vet though.

I guess I should complain to the practice owners about the attitudes of their employees, but I just kind of assumed that they take what they can get for Receptionists and Techs…and I make sure I express appreciation to the kind/compassionate ones that are a source of quality information. It seems to be a position with high turnover. The great staff members stay on for years…the irritating ones seem to move through…but yes, if I came across one of the nasty ones during an emergency, I’d feel AWFUL. And no caring pet owner should be made to feel that way when they are AT THE VET TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

The actual VETS that I deal with are sensible, knowledgeable and willing to discuss options. Inevitably, when I come across someone trying to shame me into some sort of expensive pet-fad thing (certain foods, certain training philosophies, carriers, grooming, you name it) it’s a Vet or Animal Health Tech. Or a teenager who sweeps up in the vet’s office.

This is interesting to me.

[Justmyluck]

[QUOTE=Coyoteco;7385384]
On the above, this is the post to which I was responding, not the op.

I still ask, why is Dontral a prescription drug?[/QUOTE]

Because it is, it needs to be dispensed at a specific dosage and is a higher concentration then what you can buy over the counter. Stuff is a prescription because people are idiots and would kill themselves or their animals with over dosages. Or they would be a hypochondriac and medicate themselves for something they never had. People want everything for free and they think that Dr. Goole has all of the answers they will ever need. That is BS.

[pluvinel]

[QUOTE=Justmyluck;7380444]
Human Medicine : Health at any cost.

Veterinary Medicine : Health at what cost?[/QUOTE]

That’s because the consumer is not paying for human health care…vs animal health care. There’s usually a 3rd party in the middle…with the exception of elective cosmetic surgery…which is cash up front.

I support my vet(s). We regularly discuss “cost/benefit” decisions to determine care.

[Coyoteco]

[QUOTE=Justmyluck;7385446]
Because it is, it needs to be dispensed at a specific dosage and is a higher concentration then what you can buy over the counter. Stuff is a prescription because people are idiots and would kill themselves or their animals with over dosages. Or they would be a hypochondriac and medicate themselves for something they never had. People want everything for free and they think that Dr. Goole has all of the answers they will ever need. That is BS.[/QUOTE]

Do you know that or is that a guess? I have bought Dontral through the years for cats of different sizes, and it’s always just one pill so I don’t think it’s that précises - this is from a vet in whom I have confidence.

As for the vets and human medical professionals protecting me from myself, well I disagree on that, too. I have known more animals killed by vets and more people killed by doctors than by lay people self-medicating.

It is more about control and about raising the costs of care. That has harmed the human medical system and will harm the vet medical profession if it continues down that road. You seriously support the poster’s being required to pay $165 to get a safe $6.00 pill for her cats wormer.

And while we are on wormers, why is it often being advised to give a prescription med for worms every month, rather than a treatment for worms with the necessary two week followup? There could be a reason, but I haven’t figured it out yet.

[Justmyluck]

[QUOTE=Coyoteco;7385683]
Do you know that or is that a guess? I have bought Dontral through the years for cats of different sizes, and it’s always just one pill so I don’t think it’s that précises - this is from a vet in whom I have confidence.

As for the vets and human medical professionals protecting me from myself, well I disagree on that, too. I have known more animals killed by vets and more people killed by doctors than by lay people self-medicating.

It is more about control and about raising the costs of care. That has harmed the human medical system and will harm the vet medical profession if it continues down that road. You seriously support the poster’s being required to pay $165 to get a safe $6.00 pill for her cats wormer.

And while we are on wormers, why is it often being advised to give a prescription med for worms every month, rather than a treatment for worms with the necessary two week followup? There could be a reason, but I haven’t figured it out yet.[/QUOTE]

I worked as a technician for three years prior to starting vet school. Yes Drontal is a prescription, yes prescriptions require an examination to be filled. Drontal is dosed based on weight. Yes it is a pill like everything else there are multiple strengths of the medications and types. Drontal verses Droncit based on if there are just tapes present or other possible worms. If the owner wanted to only get the pill she should have ventured into her nearest feed store and bought the over the counter medications for tapes. If she wanted Drontal specifically she needed an examination of her pet.

The once a month treatment prevents the build up of worms in your dogs system. When dealing with the worms that are most prevalent in dogs it is better to not have them. Then have to treat when your dog is harboring a major load. The main types are found everywhere you look and most dogs are continually exposed to some sort of fecal matter. You would essentially be treating them every month anyway because your dog would become constantly reinfected.

Also it is deworming, you do not worm anything.

[rugbygirl]

[QUOTE=Coyoteco;7385683]
… You seriously support the poster’s being required to pay $165 to get a safe $6.00 pill for her cats wormer.

…[/QUOTE]

If that’s what the vet charges for assessment and the prescription, then yup. I support it. I also support the poster’s right to pack up and march to a different vet if she doesn’t like it.

And yes, prescription medication is highly controlled by near-monopolies who design and manufacture the drugs, and drugs are doled out at ridiculous markups in the developed world. It’s a problem…it’s also free-market capitalism. The alternative is to move to a much more stringently regulated system…and in the US, people REALLY seem to object to over-regulation of health care. Imagine if the government made a move to interfere in PET CARE?

[independentlyawesome]

I will never understand why people expect the vet to offer payment plans. It’s not a bank. Would you walk into the grocery store starving and expect them to let you have the food for free if you promised to pay them back? Most vet offices will offer care credit, which is basically a payment plan run by an external company. If you don’t qualify for care credit, then the vet is probably correct in assessing that you won’t pay them back immediately either.

I have had fantastic veterinary care for my dog and horrible veterinary care for my rabbit (at a university with an exotics department). Both of them are alive & healthy today, but you don’t always get a skilled vet even when you pay $$$.

I have rarely encountered upselling of products in veterinary clinics. I saw one vet who did that but just ignored it. I keep a massive emergency fund for my animals because I don’t want to be put in the situation of not being able to afford excellent care for my pets. That doesn’t mean I would always agree to something like a $8,000 surgery but I would have the financial freedom to make that choice.

[Coyoteco]

[QUOTE=rugbygirl;7385725]
If that’s what the vet charges for assessment and the prescription, then yup. I support it. I also support the poster’s right to pack up and march to a different vet if she doesn’t like it.

And yes, prescription medication is highly controlled by near-monopolies who design and manufacture the drugs, and drugs are doled out at ridiculous markups in the developed world. It’s a problem…it’s also free-market capitalism. The alternative is to move to a much more stringently regulated system…and in the US, people REALLY seem to object to over-regulation of health care. Imagine if the government made a move to interfere in PET CARE?[/QUOTE]

See, you are confused about this. The markup was not on the pill, in this case the Dronsat. If it had been, my vet would have to charge the same markup and she did not. She charged about $6.00 for the exact pill by the same manufacturer so that has noting to do with drug companies or drug company markups. I’m not sure why you are confused about that since you worked as a vet tech.

As for your other post criticizing my use of the term “wormer” rather than saying “de-wormer”, just call it a bizarre colloquial use of the term. I expect to continue to say that I worm horses, and hope most people understand that I am not feeding them worms! lol I don’t think I’m the only person who still “worms” horses and pets.

[Coyoteco]

[QUOTE=Justmyluck;7385721]
I worked as a technician for three years prior to starting vet school. Yes Drontal is a prescription, yes prescriptions require an examination to be filled. Drontal is dosed based on weight. Yes it is a pill like everything else there are multiple strengths of the medications and types. Drontal verses Droncit based on if there are just tapes present or other possible worms. If the owner wanted to only get the pill she should have ventured into her nearest feed store and bought the over the counter medications for tapes. If she wanted Drontal specifically she needed an examination of her pet.

The once a month treatment prevents the build up of worms in your dogs system. When dealing with the worms that are most prevalent in dogs it is better to not have them. Then have to treat when your dog is harboring a major load. The main types are found everywhere you look and most dogs are continually exposed to some sort of fecal matter. You would essentially be treating them every month anyway because your dog would become constantly reinfected.

Also it is deworming, you do not worm anything.[/QUOTE]

That is not true with my animals. I wonder why you would continue subjecting dogs, cats, or horses to wormer when it is not necessary. A simple fecal can confirm that the worms, once cleared up with the 2nd dose appropriately timed (two weeks) tend to not come back in my world.

[Justmyluck]

You are quoting the wrong person however addressing me.

I support the right of a veterinarian to charge what ever they want for the level of care they provide. It is called capitalism.

With your thought everything should be free. No one should process any knowledge over anything. Why do we even have jobs, or go to school? Everyone should be 100% self sustaining. No one should make any money.

[Justmyluck]

[QUOTE=Coyoteco;7385756]
That is not true with my animals. I wonder why you would continue subjecting dogs, cats, or horses to wormer when it is not necessary. A simple fecal can confirm that the worms, once cleared up with the 2nd dose appropriately timed (two weeks) tend to not come back in my world.[/QUOTE]

Your world does not possess wandering cats, stray dogs, raccoons, foxes, bats?

[rugbygirl]

See, you are confused about this. The markup was not on the pill, in this case the Dronsat. If it had been, my vet would have to charge the same markup and she did not. She charged about $6.00 for the exact pill by the same manufacturer so that has noting to do with drug companies or drug company markups. I’m not sure why you are confused about that since you worked as a vet tech.

I’m really NOT confused. There is a manufacturer’s markup, and the vet’s office or dispensary is also allowed to tack on additional fees, and depending on the jurisdiction, those fees can vary wildly. The markup paid by the VET’S office is also variable, depending on the dispensary structure that they are using and the volumes that they purchase. Human prescription drugs are even more complicated. Your understanding of drug distribution is flawed, which may be why you’re so annoyed about this issue.

I was not a vet tech.

And I agree with Justmyluck. At some point, if you really think that you’re being unfairly cheated by “the system”…then treat your animals yourself. Oh. Right. You don’t know how to make dewormer. Hmm. Maybe you ought to just be content handing over your money to people who ARE competent, and include vet costs in your household budget. BEFORE you obtain pets.

[Justmyluck]

This thread has provided me with all the reasons I will never become a general practice veterinarian. 100% solidified.

[Coyoteco]

[QUOTE=Justmyluck;7385761]
You are quoting the wrong person however addressing me.

I support the right of a veterinarian to charge what ever they want for the level of care they provide. It is called capitalism.

With your thought everything should be free. No one should process any knowledge over anything. Why do we even have jobs, or go to school? Everyone should be 100% self sustaining. No one should make any money.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps I am lumping you and another poster together. Anyway, addressing this post.

Here, you are going off into space and attributing ridiculous ideas to me. My points were:1) that I think fewer medications should be covered by prescriptions in both human and animal medicine, and 2) the vet medical profession is going to a path that is harmful to animals.

I support billing for the necessary work but I don’t support padding the work necessary as has been discussed in this thread. I certainly support free market and a persons right to change vets. However, there is forming a systemic problem within the vet medicine organizations that do influence the profession as a whole. I support the vets and the animal owners who oppose that influence.

I will be the person there paying $5000 for a stray kitten if the bill is based in reality, but I will not be the person pay $165 for a $6 pill is I can avoid it.

[rugbygirl]

I WAS a receptionist at a human medical clinic for a while. Our Office Manager was an incredible woman, who taught me that you can not, in any way, pass judgment on the people who come in. Regardless of what you think you might know. Everyone gets the same cheerful, professional detachment.

That was the hardest part of the job. By far. People give you plenty of material to be judgy with.

It was also really hard to realize that in a night where I would process between 60-80 patients, ONE of them could be such a train-wreck, disaster, question-humanity-in-general type…that it coloured how I felt about everyone.

That six months killed ANY lingering desire I had to be a Doctor, and reinforced perfectly my career choice as an Engineer.

Just as threads like this bring to the forefront that loving and caring about animals IS NOT the real skillset you need to be a veterinarian. Cause you need to watch an awful lot of humans make an awful lot of crappy decisions that animals end up paying for…and your PROFESSION requires you to maintain professional detachment.

[Coyoteco]

[QUOTE=Justmyluck;7385767]
Your world does not possess wandering cats, stray dogs, raccoons, foxes, bats?[/QUOTE]

My world contains fecals.