This particular junior mother and grandmother are not new to the horseshow world. They know the business. Mother showed regularly and grandmother even hosted juniors at her home during the George Morris training session in Wellington. So, if she continued to ride that horse it was all their educated decision, not only the trainer. Karen did an amazing job training that girl and mounting her properly.
Ok, so trying this less philosophically :lol: the message is worth discussing
[QUOTE=justathought;7637776]
Ok, so trying this less philosophically :lol: the message is worth discussing[/QUOTE]
:lol: I thought the philosophical version made sense too.
I agree that the message is worth discussing.
I still think that, coming from a child who rode some Very Nice Horses due to the generosity of their owners and of her trainer, the message (as it was presented) came across as very ungrateful. Burning bridges isn’t good - she should be thanking the people who worked so hard to get her to where she is.
There are a lot of ways that she could have presented the issue more eloquently and appropriately, IMO.
[QUOTE=JDKHARL;7637483]
Horse shows are not mandatory. Just because there are horse shows every week, it does not mean you have to go to every one! It is not the nature of Equitation that takes a toll on the horse. It is the decisions made by owners and trainers to go to every single show and enter every available class. I do equitation and manage my horse wisely by treating him like an athlete. That means counting every jump and giving him time off to recover from hard work. I think Olivia is young and naive and I am resentful that the Chronicle printed this article.[/QUOTE]
First off, i like your post. As I read the article I wondered why she didn’t change trainers and find someone to do it “the right way”. She’s obviously a talented rider. Wouldn’t it be a great example to find a new trainer, do it the right way and still win.
I’m curious are you successful doing it “the right way”. Did this girl feel like she couldn’t win doing it the right way? Is that why she quit instead of continuing? If so it would be a bigger statement to have a kid with her resume to do it the right way and not be able to win??
A young girl in a family that has invested great sums of $ in riding ( or any sport) is often under a great deal of family pressure to perform/produce. I have seen situations where the daughter quit riding because of fighting over horse money. She felt she was the cause of the fighting and wanted it to stop. Her parents needed serious professional help as they realized what had gone wrong. Daughter is now in Europe and parents divorced. Add an intimidating trainer and you have a real mess. Not saying this is but …
Quite a few comments have been made regarding equitation horses having to be dialed in by their trainers in order for the "Equitation rider " to be competitive. Lunged and ridden into the ground in order for the rider to be able to “ride” I would be curious to ask the author of the article, Does she feel, she has through all her years of riding, actually learned to ride. I am not trying to be sarcastic , I am wondering , if all the excess lunging and riding and “prep” were un-necessary , would " riders " still be dealing with tired dull broken down horses ? Perhaps there should be a rule change , NO horse competing in the equitation divisions can be ridden by any other person other then it’s Eq rider and may not be lunged on the show grounds at any time. Then limit the number of classes over fences and on the flat it can be entered in in one day . I know , I know , that’s a pipe dream.
Not knowing this Kid at all , I have to assume she has dealt with many broken arms having had to accept free rides on nice horses with great trainers and generous owners for so long. I guess after this article she won’t have that problem anymore. But here’s a Tip , go to the track with $1,000.00 find a nice 2 or 3 year old and start trianing it , no need for fancy barns , BNT , deep pocketed owners. Since you are such a succesful Eq rider you must be absolutley capable of making this happen yourself . PS: I am being serious, I know plenty of kids who have had to go this route , and maybe they haven’t achieved the the BIG Eq success she has enjoyed , but no one rides/ lunges /or injects there horses to make it work for them , they love their horses and have fun . at the end of the day it’s not about the Tri colors it’s about the ride and the knowlegde gained.
For all of those saying "why didn’t she … " (change trainers, stop riding the horse so much, etc.). I think she makes it clear that the moment at finals WAS her epiphany–and she hasn’t shown since. Regardless of whether or not she did well at the finals, regardless of her parents’ financial issues, regardless–she is showing the courage of her conviction. That’s worth something.
1 Like
[QUOTE=monstrpony;7638056]
For all of those saying "why didn’t she … " (change trainers, stop riding the horse so much, etc.). I think she makes it clear that the moment at finals WAS her epiphany–and she hasn’t shown since. Regardless of whether or not she did well at the finals, regardless of her parents’ financial issues, regardless–she is showing the courage of her conviction. That’s worth something.[/QUOTE]
I did not condemn her, i simply ask why. That’s we this thread is about, having a discussion about her article. Some people might cross the line with their comments but there is nothing wrong with a discussion.
The fact that her family shows (or did show) and are familiar with the horse show world make it very interesting that she quit. Rather than trying to do it a different way. And by interesting I mean worth discussing.
[QUOTE=Cannonball;7638115]
I did not condemn her, i simply ask why. That’s we this thread is about, having a discussion about her article. Some people might cross the line with their comments but there is nothing wrong with a discussion…[/QUOTE]
So… what about the comments in the article (not the comments on the author) – are these legitimate concerns … and if so, is there a way to make meaningful changes
I can’t believe people here seriously can’t understand why she competed on the horse she said was tired. When you have an agreement to ride for a trainer, you are to honor it. It is not your place to condem them just because you think the horse is tired. As long as the horse is not three legged lame, you ride it. That is what you agreed to do and you knowingly accepted the risks that came with riding a horse for someone. The trainer is upholding their end of the deal for you, you cannot back out on them at a Final.
Having a different opinion on the way things are done (especially when you are already very familiar with the trainer and their program) is no excuse not to uphold your word and leave them high and dry at the most important show of the year after they’ve honored their word for you. Sometimes you have to shut up and ride; the inability to do that is why so many people are incapable of making it in the horse world.
Considering Olivia’s success it would appear that the trainers were more a little more intelligent than she can bear to admit.
I thought this was an EQ ride, Eq riders don’t ride for trainers , Hunter Riders , Jumper riders , may ride for owners, Eq riders , ride for themselves , she was provided a horse by a generous owner, she did not ride for that owner. She through this article may have provided a topic worth discussing , but as long as the ONLY criteria to success is how much money you have in this arena , the status quo will not change. The circumstances she discusses which led to her epiphany , has been created and developed over the years to generate the most income possible for trainers and show management derived from the richest people in the “sport”.
Wouldn’t it be interesting to create a division where by a junior rider from the age of 12 through 17 is rewarded for developing the horse they are riding.
[QUOTE=MIKES MCS;7638320]
I thought this was an EQ ride, Eq riders don’t ride for trainers , Hunter Riders , Jumper riders , may ride for owners, Eq riders , ride for themselves , she was provided a horse by a generous owner, she did not ride for that owner. She through this article may have provided a topic worth discussing , but as long as the ONLY criteria to success is how much money you have in this arena , the status quo will not change. The circumstances she discusses which led to her epiphany , has been created and developed over the years to generate the most income possible for trainers and show management derived from the richest people in the “sport”.
Wouldn’t it be interesting to create a division where by a junior rider from the age of 12 through 17 is rewarded for developing the horse they are riding.[/QUOTE]
Eq riders most certainly do ride for trainers. This horse was a sale horse for the trainer. Nothing would put better value on that horse than competing successfully at a final. The trainer obviously can’t ride it in an equitation final, so they need a talented junior to ride show the horse.
Realistically the whole big eq thing is more for the trainers than anybody. They certainly benefit from it far more than anyone else involved.
So what percentage of these Semi Pro Junior Eq Riders are on Sale horses ?? and that just makes this whole thing sadder, not only is the Eq division no longer a place to develope a rider it’s main purpose now is to create a Big ticket Eq sale horse for a trainer…
Mike there is a whole industry out there. But it actually works in that it might be profitable to the trainers but also to some of the juniors not able to afford high quality horses for these competitions.
In this case, the rider/horse combo. only did well in the California circuit. The USET there is less competitive(33 riders versus 90 or more in the east coast one) It did not place in the Maclay Finals or Medal. So for this rider to publicly complain about the horse, trainers, etc. is not very elegant since as someone else explained here a lot of people put a lot of effort in making this horse look good and she benefited from it. She should blame it on her riding and not in whether the horse was tired. All the horses are tired and exhausted at finals. Trainers and riders work hard(why would you school at 3am?) at making these animals tired so they can deal with the rigor and spookiness of the Indoor classes.
[QUOTE=leyla25;7638847]
Mike there is a whole industry out there. But it actually works in that it might be profitable to the trainers but also to some of the juniors not able to afford high quality horses for these competitions.
In this case, the rider/horse combo. only did well in the California circuit. The USET there is less competitive(33 riders versus 90 or more in the east coast one) It did not place in the Maclay Finals or Medal. So for this rider to publicly complain about the horse, trainers, etc. is not very elegant since as someone else explained here a lot of people put a lot of effort in making this horse look good and she benefited from it. She should blame it on her riding and not in whether the horse was tired. All the horses are tired and exhausted at finals. Trainers and riders work hard(why would you school at 3am?) at making these animals tired so they can deal with the rigor and spookiness of the Indoor classes.[/QUOTE]
It is interesting that two people can read the same article and have such varied interpretations. I suppose a lot of it has to do with the reader’s background and whether they have any attachment/relationship to the subject of the article. I certainly don’t think the author was complaining about her horse being tired. I also think the author’s success, or lack thereof, is irrelevant and used a a red herring to draw attention away from the subject matter, which many people apparently do not want to discuss. Just remember, 7 weeks of showing, 8-12 classes per show. Perhaps those numbers, and not her lack of success back east, is what prompted the author to write the editorial.
Why didn’t she decide not to ride the horse in the final? Because she had a lot of expectation placed on her to ride this horse. Because as a teenager not everyone places much importance on what you say. Because as a teenager you haven’t had enough experience to simply trust your gut instinct. Because as a teenager who are you to tell a trainer how to do their job.
I remember traveling to a show about 4 hours away with my big jumper and my young horse, as a was warming up my mare I told both my mum and my trainer that she didn’t feel right. They both said from the ground she looked fine and looked like she was jumping fine. So it was either me or the two people who have had 30+ years more experience than me that was wrong. I ignored what my gut was saying, thought maybe it was nerves, maybe I was just over thinking it. She didn’t feel bad or sore just not the same as she usually did. We had driven all this way for these classes, my mum had paid money to enter me, fuel to get me there and stables for the show. Was what I thought I could feel enough to just pull out. Fast forward half way around the course and I was hanging underneath her neck as she jumped a triple bar backwards. She was sore not enough to make her lame but enough that a full course of big jumps was going to hurt.
I’m not blaming my trainer or my mum for this because I didn’t have the experience behind me to really know what I was feeling or seeing. It takes a lot of time and time in the saddle to know what it is you are feeling and it can be very hard to stand behind your words and tell the professionals around you that something is not right and you don’t want to show today. As I got older it got easier and this experience while not a good one and one I wish I had been more assertive did teach me to speak up and stand behind what I say.
This may not be how Olivia felt but it is a reason to why a teenager might not have spoken up before this point.
Busylady, while I understand that the welfare of the horses is what should be discussed, it seems strange that 7 weeks of showing could come as a shock for someone used to participating in the WEF circuit that lasts 12 weeks.
[QUOTE=hunterjumper25;7637438]
My mother would have murdered me if she paid for my airfare and hotel etc. to Kentucky (not to mention the shows to qualify for Kentucky, and the cost of regionals etc.) and then I got there and decided not to show out of the “horse’s best interest.” [/QUOTE]
Article aside, if it’s really, truly in the “horse’s best interest” to not show that day, shouldn’t that be more important than the money?
I appreciate “MIKES MCS” and his optimism but honestly, can we all just have a laugh at the idea of any big eq kid going to a track and picking up a TB, and “developing it.” :lol::lol: Karen Healey would have a fit
[QUOTE=BLBGP;7639339]
Article aside, if it’s really, truly in the “horse’s best interest” to not show that day, shouldn’t that be more important than the money?[/QUOTE]
Ideally, yes, but that is simply not what is prioritized in today’s world.
